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Captain Falcon: Patch 1.0.8 Nerfs/Buffs

Koby_T

Smash Cadet
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Kobyteith
that was one of his safest KO moves since almost no one can reach him enough to hit him...it was an awesome move now its just a juggle a juggle i dont need because i dont want to play around i want to KO the opponent as fast as possible
Then hit them with any of his kill moves, most of which are and have always been "better and earlier kill options." At the point uair killed you could have used most of your kit to have taken the stock earlier (fsmash, knee, bair, dsmash, and raptor boost, to name a few). Uair is definitely safe but at its earliest kill percent it's near impossible to set up and unreliable in that your opponent can simply air dodge. You are "playing around" if uair is your go-to for taking a stock.
 
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BadDeku

Smash Rookie
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Jun 16, 2015
Messages
18
Then hit them with any of his kill moves, most of which are and have always been "better and earlier kill options." At the point uair killed you could have used most of your kit to have taken the stock earlier (fsmash, knee, bair, dsmash, and raptor boost, to name a few). Uair is definitely safe but at its earliest kill percent it's near impossible to set up and unreliable in that your opponent can simply air dodge. You are "playing around" if uair is your go-to for taking a stock.
Falcon's up air used to combo out of down throw at kill percents when players had bad di. Stomp to up air was also a pretty amazing combo (despite being situational) that also would kill, now it stops comboing before the opponent reaches kill percents. Up air was also just an amazing kill option in general with its huge hit box and great frame data, it wouldn't matter if your opponents were air dodging, they'd still get hit if you just spammed the move. I'm no professional player, but everytime I've seen tournament level falcon pre patch (hell even post patch) he's gotten at least a few kills off of up air each set.


With the move nerfed it makes some strings easier and some combos more consistent, but it makes killing vertically a very different game for falcon. I think it affects a few important matchups against lighter characters as up air is no longer a reliable kill option, but a last resort as Trifroze pointed out.

And okay I don't mean to sound like a jerk but if you think that raptor boost, smash attacks and the knee which has 30 frames of end lag, a tiny sweetspot and quite a bit of startup is better for killing than a move which comes out frame 6 and has the uses I previously mentioned then you either don't play captain falcon or don't understand this game at a competitive level
 
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BadDeku

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 16, 2015
Messages
18
Though to make things clear, I actually kind of like this change to falcon. Up air kills were sort of cheesy in my opinion and made newer players' lives a lot harder as they don't always understand how to combo di or that air dodging isn't always the best way to escape a combo. Captain Falcon still has more than enough kill power, it's just that most of it is going to come from back airs (c falc's best approach option imo as it's safe on shield and combos into dash grab and kills stupid early), up air knee and off stage dairs.

The reason I pointed out everything in my previous post is because I wanted to correct this idea throughout the thread that up air wasn't a kill option in the first place but that somehow smash attacks and the raptor boost are.
 

Koby_T

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Kobyteith
Though to make things clear, I actually kind of like this change to falcon. Up air kills were sort of cheesy in my opinion and made newer players' lives a lot harder as they don't always understand how to combo di or that air dodging isn't always the best way to escape a combo. Captain Falcon still has more than enough kill power, it's just that most of it is going to come from back airs (c falc's best approach option imo as it's safe on shield and combos into dash grab and kills stupid early), up air knee and off stage dairs.

The reason I pointed out everything in my previous post is because I wanted to correct this idea throughout the thread that up air wasn't a kill option in the first place but that somehow smash attacks and the raptor boost are.
It was not my intention to suggest uair was not a kill option, it most certainly was; however, it's more than just an idea that knee, smashes, and raptor boost are all good kill options that killed earlier by 30% at least. Dsmash has very little start up or end lag. Fsmash can kill sub-100, has a deceptive range, decent active frames, and is safe on shield with proper spacing (which then becomes more or less lenient depending on MU). Raptor boost probably doesn't deserve to be included in this list, but it's a decent mix up that can net a kill when used selectively. Fair is a decent option with its own short list of set ups and pseudo air traps. The worst offenders here are raptor boost and fair due to commitment.

But for the most part, we agree on the subject of uair and its role. I didn't intend to give the impression of a polarized view of uair being trash and raptor boost being king. Each option has a different role in the captain's kit and thinking otherwise would be short-sighted of us.
 
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Captain Farukon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
204
Then hit them with any of his kill moves, most of which are and have always been "better and earlier kill options." At the point uair killed you could have used most of your kit to have taken the stock earlier (fsmash, knee, bair, dsmash, and raptor boost, to name a few). Uair is definitely safe but at its earliest kill percent it's near impossible to set up and unreliable in that your opponent can simply air dodge. You are "playing around" if uair is your go-to for taking a stock.
you mean his slow , easy to read and guardable as hell kill moves? dsmash is slow as hell and only the rear kick kills, fsmash has horrible range, raptor boost its only a punish , same with the knee , Bair is good and has decent power but not as quick as the Uair
 
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BadDeku

Smash Rookie
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Jun 16, 2015
Messages
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It was not my intention to suggest uair was not a kill option, it most certainly was; however, it's more than just an idea that knee, smashes, and raptor boost are all good kill options that killed earlier by 30% at least. Dsmash has very little start up or end lag. Fsmash can kill sub-100, has a deceptive range, decent active frames, and is safe on shield with proper spacing (which then becomes more or less lenient depending on MU). Raptor boost probably doesn't deserve to be included in this list, but it's a decent mix up that can net a kill when used selectively. Fair is a decent option with its own short list of set ups and pseudo air traps. The worst offenders here are raptor boost and fair due to commitment.

But for the most part, we agree on the subject of uair and its role. I didn't intend to give the impression of a polarized view of uair being trash and raptor boost being king. Each option has a different role in the captain's kit and thinking otherwise would be short-sighted of us.
Okay I was wrong you do know what you're talking about to some degree (and hell, you might be better than me with how little I've been practicing, so no shots), but I don't agree with everything you've said here. Using raptor boost as an approaching mix up to cover spot dodges and rolls rarely works because its range is pretty short and timing it takes an additional read of when so I guess its best use is catching landing lag? But that still takes a read, and will almost never happen against a competent player. I honestly think raptor boost is a pretty bad move, I wish it would ledge cancel like ZSS's flipkick and have faster start up.

But smash attacks? Falcon's smash attacks are amazing for the reason you mentioned but smash attacks in general are very situational. Yes f smash can be hard to punish out of shield, but its start up, though amazing for a smash, is long enough that the move should almost never be thrown out in neutral. Most people holding their shield will be able to react to the move before it hits unless you get a read, but then why would you ever use it as shield pressure? I suppose this feature could make it a low risk mix up to go for a pivot f smash, but it wouldn't have the option coverage to ever be useful. It distorts your hurtbox though, so I've found it is a good counter to approaches with a hitbox, but that usually takes an opponent that telegraphs their approaches or a crazy read on your part. So this wont happen at a high level either really. You could read a roll with it, but high level players won't have such obvious roll patterns and I think down smash does a better job at this.

Down smash I think is an okay option for killing, and an amazing one at the low to mid level because the back hit is safe on shield and can cover many options in the neutral. If your opponent is shielding, then they are likely to try and escape from a pressure situation by either spot dodging or rolling behind you and down smash covers both of these options handily. At a high level this mix up will rarely fool anyone though. Rolling away from your opponent and throwing a hitbox out of shield can deal with down smash pretty well and if your opponent reads that you're going to downsmash in those situations then you can be punished pretty easily. I still think this move is an okay kill option though.

And then there's the knee--I actually think some of the setups for this move are close to broken. Up air knee and dash grab knee? Killing your opponent off of something safe in neutral or a grab at like, 70 percent? Yeah THAT is kill power. The only problem is these setups are percent/character weight specific as well as actually taking some pretty solid execution on the part of the player (well, stomp knee and up air knee do at least, dash grab knee just requires the ability to buffer dashes and react to di and if you can't do those things then why are you playing falcon or even this game). When I said that up air was a better option than the knee i simply meant that it was a move that could cover a crazy amount of options and was even easier to set up into at a wider range of percentages while the knee has very specific set ups and is NOT a move you want to be throwing out in neutral.

But back air? I think that is just caption falcon's best move in general. You can pretty much kill people at ~110 percent with your best approach option, and if the opponent isn't at kill percents it combos into grab or dash attack. Glad Nintendo didn't nerf this move, it's how I get 80% of my kills.
 

Warlock*G

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you mean his slow , easy to read and guardable as hell kill moves? dsmash is slow as hell and only the rear kick kills, fsmash has horrible range, raptor boost its only a punish , same with the knee , Bair is good and has decent power but not as quick as the Uair
Fsmash has horrible range now? What did I miss?
 

Captain Farukon

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Jan 21, 2015
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Fsmash has horrible range now? What did I miss?
im not gonna lie Fsmash has horrible deceptive range...one of the worst i mean most other characters have better range like bowser, mario, lucario, link and toon link with their double f smash,Ness hell even pacman, the only thing that mends C.falcon fsmash is that its very very strong
I prefer his 64 fsmash , that side blazing kick was OP and looked awesome
 
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TheGreatBrawler

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im not gonna lie Fsmash has horrible deceptive range...one of the worst i mean most other characters have better range like bowser, mario, lucario, link and toon link with their double f smash,Ness hell even pacman, the only thing that mends C.falcon fsmash is that its very very strong
I prefer his 64 fsmash , that side blazing kick was OP and looked awesome
Ness fsmash has even worse range than Falcon's...
 

KaptenFullkorn

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Magnetgoat
so im salty that my favorite character who is already one if not the hardest character to master is nerfed and other unfair characters are left unbalaced? whatever kid, i only play smash cuz of C.Falcon im not a real fan of smash brothers as a whole
I imagine a japanese saying my name when i see yours...
 
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