Can't even win against CPU

channel_KYX

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 29, 2019
Messages
129
#1
I don't have many locals in my area to smash so I play against CPUs a lot. I played a lot of Bayonetta back in SSB4 because I love her home series and she was so much fun. I learned later that she was absolutely busted and needed toning down. So far, so good.

Yesterday I decided to give her more time and make her work. So I started match after match.

... that was pretty much the most depressing experience of my SSB5 career so far.
I can't even win 100 % of my matches against lv 8 CPUs and when playing against lv9, every win is followed by at least 5 losses. Every 4th game or so I get absolutely annihilated. The few wins I can achieve are mostly due to abusing stupid CPU AI via bullet climax or stage particularities.

CPU 9's strengths are stacked so hard against Bayo. They are insane regarding frame-perfect attacks and punishes, footstools, grabs, just-in-time dodges, etc.
Bayo has 0 safe approach options due to her horrendous frame data.
Edgeguarding is near impossible as they _will_ airdodge and/or counterguard perfectly.
Her moves have low priority, meaning in the rare cases in which she gets out an attack, she is outcancelled.
Down B is downright atrocious; I battled a lv9 Bayo to see what she can do out of it. Answer: nothing. The triggered me twice and the slowdown stopped before she could even get out an attack.

Should I just give up? Accept that I cannot play Bayo while on my own? I cannot even train with her reliably, so I guess I have to stay below-average.
 

Felancius

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 4, 2019
Messages
33
#2
Looking at this and seeing what you're doing, I can already see one big flaw you've been making: Lvl 9 CPUs. This is proven to be counterproductive for competitive play as a whole, and Lvl 8 is kind of in the same factor, though not by much. Level 9 CPUs are too frame perfect in many, many moves, which makes for bad habits right there. Level 5-7 is arguably way better practice, since the CPU makes more errors that way, akin to that of a meh player in a tournament (or at least as many who've been to tournaments will say).

While I never played Bayonetta, I do know that due to her notorious reputation in Smash 4 that she was very, very heavily nerfed, so it's probably not you specifically, but rather she's very hard to play as a whole now, and now has a much larger learning curve. As far as I know, she didn't gain any buffs aside from the universal ones like jumpsquats being only 3 frames on all characters now.

Try with level 5-7 CPUs and with Arenas online for starters (preferably Beginner's only since All Skill Levels you're ironically going to find the worse players more often there). Also what might help with making use of Level 9's is having 2 level 9 CPUs fight to see how they handle their combo game and reactions, though this might not be too optimal aside from inspirational combos.
 
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channel_KYX

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 29, 2019
Messages
129
#3
Thanks a lot for your input. Let me comment to give some more insight:

I can already see one big flaw you've been making: Lvl 9 CPUs. This is proven to be counterproductive for competitive play as a whole, and Lvl 8 is kind of in the same factor, though not by much.
I actually do not want to get competitive, but want to get familiar with the character - at least so that I don't get 3 stocked the next time I play with friends. I thought CPUs would be a way to get acquainted a bit.

Level 9 CPUs are too frame perfect in many, many moves, which makes for bad habits right there.
I read every now and then that CPUs are bad for getting better (and I understand why). But how does "being too frame perfect" teach bad habits? I thought it would push me more towards using safer moves.

Try with level 5-7 CPUs and with Arenas online for starters (preferably Beginner's only since All Skill Levels you're ironically going to find the worse players more often there).
I will give it a try though my internet sucks quite hard to be honest. Let's see.

Thanks again for the pointers.
 

Felancius

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 4, 2019
Messages
33
#4
Fair enough, and no problem.

I read every now and then that CPUs are bad for getting better (and I understand why). But how does "being too frame perfect" teach bad habits? I thought it would push me more towards using safer moves.
The issue with them is that they are automated in specific patterns, and by "too frame perfect" meaning that not even normal human beings would be able to pull off on a consistent basis, even amongst top players like Mew2King, but the ai also doesn't adapt to different playstyle patterns you're making, which in turn is where the bad habits come into play, as it puts your playstyle on a specific pattern as well. This is why people say playing against other players is far better, as you still have to keep your mind on adapting to different playstyles.

I hope that explained it well enough, hope that was helpful.
 
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