Can Fox pillar?

[Aznseal]

Can you pillar with foxes shffld dair to shine just like Falco to eat up shields?

 

[Ripple]

yes you can but it's a lot harder

 

[SCOTU]

Dude, look at the thread i made about shield pressure. Fox can pillar, and it's harder to escape than falco's but doesn't do as much damage to the shield. But there are more options than just the dair, so read my thread, it'll answer this sort of question, and most related ones.

 

[Professor Pro]

so what is your thread then?

 

[Volrec]

Of course, despite fox's shorthop being real hard.

Watch some Luninspecra videos, he does it quite often.

 

[technomancer]

SHFFL Nair Pillar works pretty much the same as Falco's Dair Pillar. They can roll out, and it's harder too. IMO, just drill-shine-JC Grab is more effective to break shields, because it's not as laggy and Fox's grab has much better returns than Falco's.

 

[SCOTU]

so what is your thread then?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=109595

@ nair pillars: the bair is strictly better. It does more shield damage and has the same comeout speed/ lag afterward.

 

[Overswarm]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=109595

@ nair pillars: the bair is strictly better. It does more shield damage and has the same comeout speed/ lag afterward.

b-air has more lag than n-air....

 

[JMOAN]

http://www.smashwiki.com/wiki/Pillar

Umm, I don't know what you guys are talking about, but Fox CANNOT pillar.

Pillaring refers to Falco's ability to shine someone up into the air, follow them with a jump, and then dair them back to the ground. This can typically be continued multiple times if the dair is lcanceled, and there is some variety in it too, as other moves such as up-tilts can be used to assist the basic pillar. The entire effect appears as though Falco and his unfortunate punching bag get sent up and down, up and down. Hence the name, pillar.

Unlike Falco, Fox's shine sends the opponent at a DOWNWARD angle, rather than upward. On the ground, this translates to a horizontal movement away from Fox, but it still does not send the opponent upward. Thus, it is inherently impossible for Fox to perform a "pillar" in the accepted sense. If you are using the world "pillar" to refer to another technique, please mention this since most of the competitive smash community use "pillar" for a very specific meaning.

I think what the original poster is refering to is typically called a "drillshine." If done correctly, Fox does an l-canceled dair into a jump canceled shine and then repeats the process. JC SHFFL'd drillshines are infinites if performed perfectly against many characters; however, doing perfect JC SHFFL'd drillshines is very difficult and takes considerable practice.

Below are two videos giving examples of the infinite drillshine. I do not know if these are done perfectly such that a human opponent could not escape even with DI (especially with the Marth video), but at the very least they are good videos that show exactly what is involved in the infinite drillshine. Also, whether they are "truly" infinite in this video or not, I myself can attest that the inifite drillshine does indeed exist, as DaShizWiz did an abbreviated version of one against me in a friendly at FCDiamond. >.< It was the longest I had ever been consecutively drillshined.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tztxdBpl-Zw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIyYMVuxSUk

 

[Ether]

Pillar = dair->shine to break shields.

JMOAN, you are referring to a dair->shine combo.

 

[technomancer]

Pillar Combos are not the same as pillaring. One is a vertical combo, one is a guardbreak strategy.

 

[Binx]

7 frames of lag for neutral air, 10 frames of lag for bair, however shield stun is 16 frames so it is largely irrelivant in regards to pillaring. If Bair does indeed eat more shield then it is probably better than nair or drill, however I have not tested that. For the sake of argument the dair has 11 frames of lag l canceled.

 

[JMOAN]

Well, after relooking at the "official" term list and discussing the definition with Moogle (a smasher who has been in the scene longer than I), turns out I'm wrong. "Pillaring" can indeed refer to the combo, but more often it refers to exactly what ya'll were saying; chipping away at the shield. I'm not sure how I missed this little tidbit, and I'm confused as to WHY it's called a pillar...

But in any case, disregard most of the terminology in my previous post. The gameplay mechanics I mentioned are correct, but my terms were not completely accurate. I did not fully understand what "pillaring" meant.

Now, with that said, someone needs to fix the smashwiki page to reflect the two definitions.

And WHY is it called pillaring in the first place?

 

[SCOTU]

7 frames of lag for neutral air, 10 frames of lag for bair, however shield stun is 16 frames so it is largely irrelivant in regards to pillaring. If Bair does indeed eat more shield then it is probably better than nair or drill, however I have not tested that. For the sake of argument the dair has 11 frames of lag l canceled.

What? i'm not exactly sure what you're saying with this.

The bair and nair both recieve 3 frames of hitlag when they hit the shield, and the shield stun on each is 10 frames... and a dair has only 9 frames of l-canceled lag...

 

[Overswarm]

Well, after relooking at the "official" term list and discussing the definition with Moogle (a smasher who has been in the scene longer than I), turns out I'm wrong. "Pillaring" can indeed refer to the combo, but more often it refers to exactly what ya'll were saying; chipping away at the shield. I'm not sure how I missed this little tidbit, and I'm confused as to WHY it's called a pillar...

But in any case, disregard most of the terminology in my previous post. The gameplay mechanics I mentioned are correct, but my terms were not completely accurate. I did not fully understand what "pillaring" meant.

Now, with that said, someone needs to fix the smashwiki page to reflect the two definitions.

And WHY is it called pillaring in the first place?

The SmashWiki isn't completely wrong. I, too, thoguht it referred solely to Falco's d-air/shine combo, but it apparently does not.



Also, pillars go up and down. Like Falco when he is pillaring

 

[FastFox]

http://www.smashwiki.com/wiki/Pillar

Umm, I don't know what you guys are talking about, but Fox CANNOT pillar.

Pillaring refers to Falco's ability to shine someone up into the air, follow them with a jump, and then dair them back to the ground. This can typically be continued multiple times if the dair is lcanceled, and there is some variety in it too, as other moves such as up-tilts can be used to assist the basic pillar. The entire effect appears as though Falco and his unfortunate punching bag get sent up and down, up and down. Hence the name, pillar.

Unlike Falco, Fox's shine sends the opponent at a DOWNWARD angle, rather than upward. On the ground, this translates to a horizontal movement away from Fox, but it still does not send the opponent upward. Thus, it is inherently impossible for Fox to perform a "pillar" in the accepted sense. If you are using the world "pillar" to refer to another technique, please mention this since most of the competitive smash community use "pillar" for a very specific meaning.

I think what the original poster is refering to is typically called a "drillshine." If done correctly, Fox does an l-canceled dair into a jump canceled shine and then repeats the process. JC SHFFL'd drillshines are infinites if performed perfectly against many characters; however, doing perfect JC SHFFL'd drillshines is very difficult and takes considerable practice.

Below are two videos giving examples of the infinite drillshine. I do not know if these are done perfectly such that a human opponent could not escape even with DI (especially with the Marth video), but at the very least they are good videos that show exactly what is involved in the infinite drillshine. Also, whether they are "truly" infinite in this video or not, I myself can attest that the inifite drillshine does indeed exist, as DaShizWiz did an abbreviated version of one against me in a friendly at FCDiamond. >.< It was the longest I had ever been consecutively drillshined.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tztxdBpl-Zw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIyYMVuxSUk

You just wasted like, 100213498134098 years of your life typing this.

 

[SCOTU]

now that FastFox quotes it, i just read it. Believe me, DI can escape it for anyone. SDI the drill, so the shine doesn't hit. End of story.

 

[Overswarm]

now that FastFox quotes it, i just read it. Believe me, DI can escape it for anyone. SDI the drill, so the shine doesn't hit. End of story.

If the Fox is doing the dair while inside your character's frame, there are very few characters that can SDI out of it. It is infinitely more useful to SDI out of the shine.

 

[Rx-]

Can anyone name me off some characters that are more likely to fall prey to this than others? I could use a few examples. Thanks!

 

[SCOTU]

If the Fox is doing the dair while inside your character's frame, there are very few characters that can SDI out of it. It is infinitely more useful to SDI out of the shine.

SDI length is greater than the width of the drill kick hitbox, so pretty much anyone can escape a drillshine combo w/ only one SDI.

Can anyone name me off some characters that are more likely to fall prey to this than others? I could use a few examples. Thanks!

If you're talking about the drillshine infinite, peach, link, and zelda are the easiest, since you don't have to dash. If you're talking about pillaring, chars, like peach w/ a high shield, and no fast moves out of it are most susceptible.

 

[Overswarm]

SDI length is greater than the width of the drill kick hitbox, so pretty much anyone can escape a drillshine combo w/ only one SDI.

This is not true if the drill kick is fast falled and is occuring INSIDE the character's frame. If the Fox is merely approaching with a drillshine and hits on the outer left or right side, it is easy to get out of, but if the Fox is inside it is very unlikely for a player to SDI out of it. If the Fox happens to be DIing the way that the character is SDIing, he can still hit them as well.

 

[Aznseal]

k, thanks :D

 

[Aznseal]

k,thanks for the info :D