Can anyboy add on to my list of Palutena Tips?

[Combotea]

Hello there, and thank you for visiting my thread! I have learned a lot on being a defensive Palutena player, and I think I need more help on her. If you could tell me anything that I could add to the things I have learned, or even things that are really bad in the tips, please reply! Thank you!

Tips:
- From longer-range, Reflect is always a good option to deflect projectiles and Neutral B is a good option for poking/spacing from a distance.
-Reflect is also good for Mid-Range aswell. (Kinda doubting this one. .-.)
-For projectile spammers, if you are close enough, use your dash attack and hit them with it so because it has high priority and projectile invisibility.
-Once close to projectile spammer, to not let them get away, good reading, anti-air, and follow-ups, will prevent them from pelting projectiles at you.
-Bair is not a great option, but something to consider for Anti-air because of its invincible properties.
-Fair is a relatively safe for Anti-air, pressure, and even spacing.

I also managed to find a Defensive Palutena Strategy, so please, if you have anything to add on, or to correct, please reply.

-If you are at a distance, use neutral special as a poking/spacing tool. Neutral B is pretty much safe from far away, but if you become predictable with it, characters like Fox could reflect it back.
-The idea is for the opponent to come towards you, so bait them in by reflecting back their projectiles, or pressure them with short hop fairs because of their non-existent landing lag, for them to come towards you.
-In close-quarters combat, you need to be wary of when to shield, when it's safe to move, counter, and punish. You can punish with a dash attack into a Fair or Nair, Dthrow into Nair and Uair.
-Nair is good at meeting opponents in the air because it has hit boxes all around, thus, making it a good anti-air and ledge-guard attack.

Thank you, for listening to my intensely long list of tips! Like I said a couple of times before, please try and attempt to find anything you can add on to my list of tips, and if these tips helped you out a bit, I hope you enjoyed this list. A million times, thanks for reading these long list of tips.
(P.S. please bear with my 420p icon of my Avatar from FE Fates, i'll probably change it into something more... Jazzed up, idk.)

 

[snook]

Appreciate the effort put towards the post, like to see people trying to push the meta for Palutena .

In regards to your tips
Bair can be useful for keeping people out or even approaching as it will always beat moves and won't trade due to the shield armour. It also hits them at a relatively low angle which can lead to various follow ups. It's also relatively safe enough out of short hop to keep a defensive position.

Fair I wouldn't consider a good anti air, as it can be beaten by a lot of moves coming from above and at best would just trade with them. It is good for pressure and poking though, probably her best approaching tool as well as a great combo starter.

A better anti air option in my opinion is up tilt, due to it's hitboxes creating a sucking in effect.

In regards to your strategy
For your comments on A.R I agree it's a good tool for spacing and safe pressure if at a distance. But one thing I didn't see you mention as that it forces an approach, which is exactly what a defensive player wants. You have control over the pace of the match and will mainly be reacting to what your opponent does.
(I know you mention this with reflect but I feel this is a better way of achieving the same result, it also doesn't rely on the opponent having a projectile so it works with all characters.)

When it comes to close combat you didn't mention jab 1 which is pretty much her best ground move. it leads into another jab, grabs, dash attack, up smash, f smash and pretty much anything else if your opponent doesn't react to it (some of these are true, others are reaction based.)
It's also pretty safe if you do retreating jabs with perfect pivots.
Dash attack also has a boat load of ending lag so you probably won't get follow ups out of it (unless your opponent doesn't react), but it is pretty good for getting people off your back if they're aggressive.


Addition tips
If you want a nice compilation of tips then this guide is perfect to get started with, but I'll just throw in a couple things I've learned from playing in a competitive environment myself and labbing.

There's actually so much more I can say about each individual move but I'll just keep it brief and talk about the first things that come to mind.

Spoiler: Fair

• Spacing tool
• Approaching option
• Combo tool

As I mentioned already it's great for spacing due to it's fairly decent hitbox size and lack of end lag, it can combo into various moves, and you can approach with this though it's easy enough to beat out so do this sparingly.

You'll mainly want to use it when counter attacking (punish unsafe options), using it out of short hop is the most optimal way to set up combos or strings.

Spoiler: Bair

• Approaching option
• Kill move
• Defensive option

It's a decent approaching option due to the invincibility that will beat out any other move though it's not safe on shield unless you're spacing correctly, and even then you're still in a bad position to get attacked. Use it more so if your opponent is being aggressive and likes to go for offensive options more than shielding.

You can also just stay in your zone and throw out bairs when people try to approach, be careful about when you decide to use them though as not to get shield grabbed from a grounded approach.

Finally you can use it near the ledge for a fairly decent kill option, good for catching people trying to return to the stage.

Spoiler: Nair

• Combo tool
• Baiting tool
• Kill move

Nair is actually quite good for keeping combos going (particularly on battlefield) as it autocancels on platforms allowing you to follow up with whatever you want pretty much (% dependent of course).

It's good for baiting an approach as it autocancels out of full hop.

It actually kills earlier than most people would expect and is great for catching people at the ledge or even when coming down after being launched by someone.

It can be beaten out by a lot of moves though so don't just throw it out constantly.

Spoiler: Jab

• Combo tool
• Kill setup

I mainly see this move as the start to all her good combo setups. You can get it out of fair, you can do a pivot slide into it as a baiting option and approaching tool, you can even combo it into itself with perfect pivots (character specific) there's just so much you can do with it under the right circumstances.
And as I mentioned already you can get a wide variety of moves after a jab, for example at high % up smash can be a nice mixup leading to kills.

Spoiler: Throws

Main throw you'll be using Dthrow, as it leads to her BnB combos (literally any of her aerials except dair) and is great for dealing damage. The follow ups are di dependent so you'll want decent reactions for this. At high % you can go for up air for kills but again this is di dependent so you can try to mix it up with jump cancel up smashes or even baiting an air dodge into whatever you please.

For di mixups you can use Fthrow. If they're expecting a Dthrow they'll more than likely di away, you can use this to your advantage by going for ledge cancels out of Fthrow to get your follow ups. Obviously this will depend on your positioning, but that's why you play defensively to make sure you're in your zone.
Other than that you can use it simply to get people off your back and create space, you can even add some safe pressure with A.R if you want, forcing your opponent to either take the hit, use a jump or air dodge (causing them to put themselves in certain positions.)

Kill throws are both Bthrow and UpThrow. Obviously use Bthrow near the ledge, it's pretty decent and at lower % can get people off stage for edge guarding.
UpThrow used when in center stage or on platforms, takes a bit longer to kill than Bthrow but it's a nice di mixup especially if you use it sparingly.

Spoiler: Specials

The main special you'll be using probably will be A.R allowing for safe pressure, forcing opponents to approach, edge guarding (catching jumps especially) and even jab locking if you really want to use it to it's full potential.
Reflect is obviously useful for dealing with projectiles, and it's lingering properties catch out most people.
Aside from this it can be use for pushing free-falling opponents off stage or even pushing people who don't auto snap the ledge off. This is widely under used tactic and I'd like to get into more detail with it but I'll leave that for when I make my own thread.
Lastly it's actually good for getting back on stage if your opponent is waiting in shield near the ledge. It will ALWAYS shield poke and allows a safe recovery, as well as making your opponent confused (unless of course they know about this)
Warp is her recovery move but can also be canceled when sliding off a ledge. Once canceled she can act immediately with any move.
There is huge potential in this, from defensive options like warping from one platform to another to escape a pressuring opponent, baiting tactics like warping to ledge and back followed by a smash or grab or counter, offensive options like ledge cancel nair off stage or bair back onto stage, the list is endless and you can pretty much make stuff up as you go.
One common tactic that's useful is just warping to ledge to trump an opponent. If used sparingly, the opponent more than likely won't bother buffering an option so it'll work most of the time.
Finally we have counter, it's not great frame wise and often leads to you getting punished either at start up or during end lag but it has it's uses.
You can get an instant counter out of ledge cancels, this is a good mixup for someone expecting you to ledge cancel.
You can punish high recoveries that have hurtboxes (such as bayonetta's ABK), allowing for edge guarding opportunities.

I didn't mention tilts, dair or up air because I'm being lazy right now but don't get me wrong they actually have their uses and are actually vital to Palu's playstyle (with maybe the exception of ftilt ) but yeah hope it helps, check out that thread if you haven't already, cheers.

 

[Combotea]

Thank you so much for the advice! TBH, you put way more effort than I did with my post, i'll be sure to check out the guide! Yet again, thank you!

 

[PHP]

AR isn't safe at all, almost every character can dash under it, it's extremely telegraphed so your opponent can just shield, it has a chance of not locking on so you're a sitting duck for ~68 frames which is more than a second, and it's extremely easy to dodge (you can even spot dodge all three or jump over and punish). I recommend doing nothing since it's better not to be stuck in lag of this horrible neutral B. If it's a fast character you're playing against like Fox or Sheik you better prepare to go for a ride because Palutena literally has nothing for fast characters with her fastest move on the ground being neutral grab (frame 7)

 

[snook]

AR isn't safe at all, almost every character can dash under it, it's extremely telegraphed so your opponent can just shield, it has a chance of not locking on so you're a sitting duck for ~68 frames which is more than a second, and it's extremely easy to dodge (you can even spot dodge all three or jump over and punish). I recommend doing nothing since it's better not to be stuck in lag of this horrible neutral B. If it's a fast character you're playing against like Fox or Sheik you better prepare to go for a ride because Palutena literally has nothing for fast characters with her fastest move on the ground being neutral grab (frame 7)

I believe it can be safe, depending on how you use it and obviously what characters you're against.
True that you shouldn't be throwing it out in neutral against faster characters but it can definitely be safe if your using it for edge guarding situations.
And to avoid whiffing I find doing a retreating short hop works best as it'll usually angle the shots downwards (if your opponent is trying to run in at you.) This seems to be the most consistent way of hitting people for me.

You also have to put into account your opponents play styles when considering this move so I wouldn't completely count it out.

 

[sjb.dario]

Here are some miscellaneous tips.

-U-throw kills at around 150% with some rage.
-D-tilt kills near ledge at high %.

I actually don't know the exact % window for these options, so feel free to tell me the info or correct me.

AR isn't safe at all, almost every character can dash under it, it's extremely telegraphed so your opponent can just shield, it has a chance of not locking on so you're a sitting duck for ~68 frames which is more than a second, and it's extremely easy to dodge (you can even spot dodge all three or jump over and punish). I recommend doing nothing since it's better not to be stuck in lag of this horrible neutral B. If it's a fast character you're playing against like Fox or Sheik you better prepare to go for a ride because Palutena literally has nothing for fast characters with her fastest move on the ground being neutral grab (frame 7)

Don't count out autoreticle. Remember that it can be useful to pressure opponents who wouldn't approach. Mixing up your mid-range game will allow you to force your opponents to respect or challenge your autoreticle. It will pressure their shield and will likely force them out of their defensive options. By doing this, you're cutting their options, which will make it easier for you to read them, since they'll likely rely more on offensive options rather than both offensive and defensive options by then.

Autoreticle may not be the best move, but it certainly isn't useless. Maximize your number of options and overwhelm your opponent.

 

[_Darkpit_]

Dear Palutena mainer, dear Palutena players!

Sorry to post this but I need all of you.I think you all know of the counter problem with Lady Palutena. Thats why I prepared a video for you! I would develope more videos like that. Because of the counter bug its impossible to counter against the opponent. That can't be true!!!! In my opinion we should team upI My suggestion is that we write to Nintendo e-mails. What do you think?

Here is my video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kvWQmtvw9I

You can spread it in Youtube, Facebook, Miiverse (Palutena >SUPPORT< Community). I'm online to tell you that. I need all of you to reach this aim. Bayonetta was nerfed (edited) too!


Do you agree? Another suggestions?