Camping/Zoning with Yoshi?

[Dinowulf]

A Problem I'm starting to realize is that Players who fight against Yoshi is becoming highly dependent on the Camping game. They won't approach and just simply stand there spamming moves and before anything is said yes i am aware of the difference between Zoning and camping.

The problem i have is against Sheik, Marth, Samus, Fox, Falco. Egg Tosses doesn't work against most attacks while trying to Zone/Camp as well as my friends don't give advice for move on what to do against charecters but give advice against me.

1. What are some tactics that can be used for camping?
2. Should I just pick another charecter and become a zoning fighter. I'm starting to lose interest with Yoshi cause no matter what i do i seem to always lose to campers and i'm not getting any help on trying to figure out the problem from my friends.

 

[Kimimaru]

One thing you can do against camping is bait your opponent. Make it look like you're going in when you really aren't; this can be accomplished with DJL, movement mixups, and more. This not only enables you to punish them, but it also allows you to see how they react to you closing in. This game favors defensive play, so you have to make sure that you pressure your opponents so that they don't feel safe camping.

I usually have trouble against defensive players myself, so I welcome other suggestions/advice.

 

[Nuttre]

Use the top platform. Use it for mixups, especially on smaller stages like yoshi's or battlefield where you can fake out an approach by double jumping lower and other stuff too. You still need to be careful though some matchups arent as good for this as others (like marth)

 

[Mind Trick]

People who ' just simply stand there spamming moves' are easily baited with a dash dance fake out or any Yoshi specific movement tricksies and definitely susceptible to eggs. You can also definitely still use pokes as Yoshi in the form of dtilt/fsmash/ftilt, it's just that his movement and moveset tailor much more to fighting aggressive opponents.

A Fox that lasers intelligently is really hard to deal with though (see aMSa vs Zero), but yeah... he's the best in the game for a reason.

If you want to camp as Yoshi, pick a small stage, do ECE's any time you're not in immediate danger of being hit.

 

[Dinowulf]

People who ' just simply stand there spamming moves' are easily baited with a dash dance fake out or any Yoshi specific movement tricksies and definitely susceptible to eggs. You can also definitely still use pokes as Yoshi in the form of dtilt/fsmash/ftilt, it's just that his movement and moveset tailor much more to fighting aggressive opponents.

A Fox that lasers intelligently is really hard to deal with though (see aMSa vs Zero), but yeah... he's the best in the game for a reason.

If you want to camp as Yoshi, pick a small stage, do ECE's any time you're not in immediate danger of being hit.

When you say movement tricksies what do you mean by that?

 

[Mind Trick]

DJL and DJWL mostly

e.g. dashing up to someone and stopping right out of their zone with DJL or
dashing away and immediately DJWL turnaround back in their space

 

[Dinowulf]

DJL and DJWL mostly

e.g. dashing up to someone and stopping right out of their zone with DJL or
dashing away and immediately DJWL turnaround back in their space

I know this is really late and rebumping the topic but i really think this is a important matter for all Yoshi players. Since we're in the topic of Camping and Zoning. I should bring up another topic "Spamming" I came up with a theory that Peach can not shield after she does a single downsmash. I also learned that Yoshi can only take one Dsmash on his shield to attack. let it Heal it's self then repeat the process. Can anyone confirm this theory for me?

 

[Kimimaru]

I'm a little confused with what was said here:

I came up with a theory that Peach can not shield after she does a single downsmash. I also learned that Yoshi can only take one Dsmash on his shield to attack. let it Heal it's self then repeat the process. Can anyone confirm this theory for me?

For the former, I don't quite understand how that's a theory; hold the shield button after using D-smash with Peach and you will shield. For the latter, do you mean that Yoshi's shield can take one entire Peach D-smash without breaking? I'm pretty sure I've been hit by an entire one before without it breaking my shield, but I can't confirm it for sure until I accurately test it since there are several factors that come into play (Yoshi's shield health, how much Peach's D-smash is staled, etc.) that vary in matches against players. How does this relate to "Spamming"? Are you referring to Peach spamming D-smash or something else?

 

[Dinowulf]

Yea. I should have been more clear. I know not all peach's do that but from a very basic level (like myself) and new comers coming into the yoshi game if they happen to read this topic i want to make sure it gets noted. I've been reading your matchup topic that was made a while ago. There isn't really a new one for the matchups now that the meta for Yoshi has changed.

 

[Kimimaru]

The MUs are essentially the same as before, though. In my experience, I learned more from getting MU advice from multiple different people and playing the MUs themselves. The problem with MU threads is that they are usually explained from only one point of view. Different players have different playstyles and may approach MUs differently.

I know what you mean, though. For example, against the Ice Climbers Yoshi will want to keep them separated with Egg Lay, D-tilt, or D-smash and try his best to ensure at least 1 Climber dies before they get back together. However, how you adapt to your opponent anticipating and countering these moves is ultimately up to you as the player.

 

[Dinowulf]

The MUs are essentially the same as before, though. In my experience, I learned more from getting MU advice from multiple different people and playing the MUs themselves. The problem with MU threads is that they are usually explained from only one point of view. Different players have different playstyles and may approach MUs differently.

I know what you mean, though. For example, against the Ice Climbers Yoshi will want to keep them separated with Egg Lay, D-tilt, or D-smash and try his best to ensure at least 1 Climber dies before they get back together. However, how you adapt to your opponent anticipating and countering these moves is ultimately up to you as the player.

wanted to know would you be willing to add more matchup info to that topic?

 

[Kimimaru]

Sure thing! I have to hold it off for a few days since I'll be away this weekend. Would you consider that your worst matchup? What about the MU are you struggling with?

 

[Dinowulf]

Sure thing! I have to hold it off for a few days since I'll be away this weekend. Would you consider that your worst matchup? What about the MU are you struggling with?

Biggest problems i have recently is Marth & Sheik. While i know i have a bad matchup against sheik with the CG of course. The problem i'm having with the marths is that they will camp very very hard which creates a very boring match. I've asked some of my personal friends who also play smash (and live in the same area) but none of them knows what to say to really help me. (damn sure can give advice against me but not help me) So i don't really have anyone who can help me learn the matchups as yoshi

 

[Kimimaru]

Do they just stand there and wait for you to approach, or are they zoning you out by outranging you and making it hard for you to get in? Marth doesn't have a projectile, so if he's camping by just standing there, there's not much he can do to you.

For the Sheik CG, the best thing to do is avoid getting grabbed. But it's Sheik, so she's bound to get at least 1 grab if the player is good. In my MU topic, I highlighted a spot behind Sheik to DI her D-throw; this spot makes it possible to escape the CG as early as ~55%.

 

[MrHazuki]

My strategy against campers is mostly to approach faster and harder, and beat them at my game, not theirs. Don't forget that Yoshi has really good aggressive options.

 

[Dinowulf]

Do they just stand there and wait for you to approach, or are they zoning you out by outranging you and making it hard for you to get in? Marth doesn't have a projectile, so if he's camping by just standing there, there's not much he can do to you.

For the Sheik CG, the best thing to do is avoid getting grabbed. But it's Sheik, so she's bound to get at least 1 grab if the player is good. In my MU topic, I highlighted a spot behind Sheik to DI her D-throw; this spot makes it possible to escape the CG as early as ~55%.

There mainly just standing not approaching at all. when i try to camp them back with Eggtosses then they decide to move.
it's kinda frustrating. I've been trying to D.I With the chaingrab but i have no means to practice it. Sadly 20xx can't do it either.

 

[Kimimaru]

You're forcing an approach, which is good. You have to keep up the pressure by taking center stage and reacting to their decisions. Since you're in a better position, they'll have fewer options.

 

[Dinowulf]

You're forcing an approach, which is good. You have to keep up the pressure by taking center stage and reacting to their decisions. Since you're in a better position, they'll have fewer options.

This post that you made has been helping me in my singles and doubles expirence with a friend of mine who mains pikachu (Axe/VMan of the south hahaha. I've became the Center fighter to a extent but being a stock tank in the process is hard lol)

In the case of marth and his grab/throw/forward+smash desperation how would i go about baiting that to counter?

 

[Kimimaru]

If he's dashdancing it will be really tough, but if he's just standing there try using DJLs.

 

[Dinowulf]

If he's dashdancing it will be really tough, but if he's just standing there try using DJLs.

Another thing i wanna ask is if i parry a grab what move should i use immediately after or should i try to just jump back or forward from the opponent? From the fights i've had and the grab parries I've gotten they immediately try to go for another grab desperately

 

[Kimimaru]

I don't usually expect to parry a grab when I do, but I try grabbing or simply get out of shield and back into neutral. When I do expect the parry I punish with N-air as I would if I parried an aerial.

 

[Nuttre]

I find fair or dsmash or dthrow to be a good punish in almost any situation. If i can, ill always go for fair. But it all depends on MU, percents and opponent