Building a Good "How to Use Peach" Thread

[TimeSmash]

Hi everyone!

I'm really new to Project M, so I didn't want to make an actual thread about Peach's moveset or anything because I only know some things about it, as well as her techniques.

Basically though, since Project M is up and coming, I think it would be great if we had a thread that talked about Peach's moveset, background, and techniques like Float Cancelling and such all composed into one thread. This thread would share qualities with the already established MU thread, but the thread I am thinking of here would be more Peach-based than MU based.

I think if we all contribute, we could make a great Peach thread and inform everyone how to use her. This could serve as a basic guide to Peach, and could be updated the more we find out about her in the game.

Well, what do you all think? What does this guide need to be good?

 

[deadjames]

I'm pretty sure everything you could ever want to know about Peach is already in the Melee forums, the only major differences about Peach in P:M as far as I know is that she has her Brawl utilt, her weapon of choice for fsmash is sequential rather than random starting with the frying pan, then the tennis racket, then the golf club, and her up-b goes higher making her recovery better than it was in Melee.

 

[TimeSmash]

Good point. I was thinking of making something in this section just so people didn't have to go over there, and to see if anyone has discovered any new uses of Peach that weren't present in Melee (like glide tossing). I guess I'll have to see how badly people want this, or if it isn't needed.

 

[deadjames]

Good point. I was thinking of making something in this section just so people didn't have to go over there, and to see if anyone has discovered any new uses of Peach that weren't present in Melee (like glide tossing). I guess I'll have to see how badly people want this, or if it isn't needed.

From what I understand glide tossing isn't very useful in P:M, however, Peach can utilize aerial glide tossing which was also in Melee if I'm not mistaken, and her new utilt give her more combo options as well as options for platform pressure.

 

[Carinca]

I think this should happen. There is so much metagame possible with Peach, but these forums have kinda died a lil bit.

 

[Lil Puddin]

I think this should happen. There is so much metagame possible with Peach, but these forums have kinda died a lil bit.

Due to the fact Project M gameplay tactics for a good number of us will be obsolete when Nintendo pulls the Wifi plug towards the end of May. I'll probably just sell my Brawl game when that happens. So it'd only benefit people who play Project M regularly with people at home or competitions.

 

[TimeSmash]

Project M is growing though, and I wouldn't be surprised if the devs come up with some way around the whole Wifi shutdown thing. I'd love if this thread actually took off, but the fact that there are few Peach players in PM coupled with the fact of how dead these boards are makes it more of a dream than anything.

That's not to say if someone DID start a Peach thread, I wouldn't contribute. Power to the Peaches haha!

 

[Carinca]

Due to the fact Project M gameplay tactics for a good number of us will be obsolete when Nintendo pulls the Wifi plug towards the end of May. I'll probably just sell my Brawl game when that happens. So it'd only benefit people who play Project M regularly with people at home or competitions.

I never play over wifi, but I see your point. I think it might be fun to make this still, but yeah it may have limited utility.

I also think more people are actually playing project m now, so more competitions are popping up.

 

[Lil Puddin]

Project M is growing though, and I wouldn't be surprised if the devs come up with some way around the whole Wifi shutdown thing. I'd love if this thread actually took off, but the fact that there are few Peach players in PM coupled with the fact of how dead these boards are makes it more of a dream than anything.

That's not to say if someone DID start a Peach thread, I wouldn't contribute. Power to the Peaches haha!

That'd be a dream come true, but it would never happen I think. Anyway I think my strongest character is Peach, so I'm pretty good at using several techniques with her. I wouldn't mind adding some of my peach-flavored mindgames to the mix.

 

[TimeSmash]

I wouldn't expect anything soon, but there has been some talk about it here and there.

I'm all about starting a thread, though I can't say I know TOO much technical stuff about Peach. I've been using Zelda much more recently, but a thread like that could attract people back to these boards.

 

[Angrycuban]

yeah this would be pretty cool, no one really plays peach at an extremely high level in PM though which is unfortunate. Most melee peach mains have switched characters or just aren't doing that well, which is reasonable cause shes not that great in this game but whatever, A how to use peach guide might help bring more attention to the character.

 

[deadjames]

shes not that great in this game

You'll have to elaborate on that one because Peach is definitely high tier imo.

 

[Angrycuban]

You'll have to elaborate on that one because Peach is definitely high tier imo.

I dont think so, I made a tier list of my own, kinda just for fun i only shared it with the people i play with locally, but i put her somewhere around mid tier. Theres just a lot of really bad match ups for her that are so much worse in this game, captain falcon, mewtwo, lucas, fox, link, samus, pit, Ivysaur etc. Most of the top tiers seem to beat her pretty bad. She does well against a few top tiers like falco wolf and meta knight but i dunno, there's just so much stuff that gives her trouble now unlike melee. Ive started playing fox or sheik against Ivy, link and mewtwo just because i find those match ups really difficult with peach. Its not that she is a bad character, but all im saying is there is a reason that you don't really ever see peaches in top 8s at PM majors.

 

[deadjames]

I completely disagree, Peach wrecks Lucas, Pit, Ivy, and Samus, and Falcon, Fox, and Link are nowhere near bad enough to warrant a character switch. I also disagree that she does well against Falco, Wolf, and MK, she punishes them really hard, but they completely outclass her in neutral. There's also the fact that she got more buffs than any of the other Melee high tiers. As for her not being able to place top 8 at a major, didn't Vanz get third at TBH3? I know that was 2.6 but Peach hasn't changed since then. Personally, I think the only characters not capable of breaking top 8 are Bowser and Ganon.

 

[Angrycuban]

I completely disagree, Peach wrecks Lucas, Pit, Ivy, and Samus, and Falcon, Fox, and Link are nowhere near bad enough to warrant a character switch. I also disagree that she does well against Falco, Wolf, and MK, she punishes them really hard, but they completely outclass her in neutral. There's also the fact that she got more buffs than any of the other Melee high tiers. As for her not being able to place top 8 at a major, didn't Vanz get third at TBH3? I know that was 2.6 but Peach hasn't changed since then. Personally, I think the only characters not capable of breaking top 8 are Bowser and Ganon.

Really? I find gannon and bowser to be decent characters actually. Maybe bowser is only good because Kirk is godlike haha. I dunno though this is all my opinion of course but i hate Ivy pit and samus and falcon with peach a lot. Ivys back air is just supid (maybe im a noob but i have problems dealing with it unless i have a turnip) samus has so much more kill power now with her ice mode (fair kills peach so damn early but samus still lives forever) and pit just runs away and shoots arrows which is really hard to deal with cause peach cant run too fast in those heels. Falcon also can combo paech for free ( my buddy who plays falcon says its his favorite match up in the game) and since peach cant chain grab falcon anymore its a huge pain in the ass. Lucas is a little more even but hes just so damn fast and his ice ball makes the whole stage a "no float zone", also his dacus is ridiculous. My main sparring partner is a lucas though so im actually decent at that match up. Mk does out class her in neutral but you can crouch cancel half of his stuff until like 80% (thats only a slight exaggeration haha). Falco and wolf also aren't too bad for me. Falco is a pain but its basically the same match up as melee and im good at it there, probably just because i practice power shielding his lasers a lot and i abuse the **** out of chain grab (even though its nerfed). Wolf is actually in peaches favor IMO because he cant shoot a laser and still cancel into wave land at her max float height which negates wolfs best tool in neutral, I play wolf a lot so i know that match up pretty well. I dunno she isn't BAD per say. lol I still main her completely its just sometimes I switch to fox or sheik and remember how much easier this game can be haha.

 

[Angrycuban]

As for her not being able to place top 8 at a major, didn't Vanz get third at TBH3?

I vaugley remember this so i might be completely wrong but didn't he switch to zero suit after losing with peach a few times? Again i could be completly wrong i watch a lot of smash and i blends together sometimes haha. Vanz is godlike though theres no denying that

 

[deadjames]

I think Vanz did use ZSS in a few games, but he used mostly Peach from what I remember. Also, Samus' ice actually hes less kill power than fire, that's the tradeoff, fire has more knockback, but ice has more hitstun. Although it's much easier to land the strong hit of her ice fair since it's not multi-hit. As for Ganon and Bowser, they aren't terrible, but they aren't viable imo, they're like the equivalent to like Doc and Samus in Melee, they're not really bad, but they're not really good either.

 

[Angrycuban]

I think Vanz did use ZSS in a few games, but he used mostly Peach from what I remember. Also, Samus' ice actually hes less kill power than fire, that's the tradeoff, fire has more knockback, but ice has more hitstun. Although it's much easier to land the strong hit of her ice fair since it's not multi-hit. As for Ganon and Bowser, they aren't terrible, but they aren't viable imo, they're like the equivalent to like Doc and Samus in Melee, they're not really bad, but they're not really good either.

Yeah your probably right about samus I don't know much about her i just fighting hate her haha especially on PS2. Yeah thats a fair pointa bout bowser and ganon, I suppose this game is pretty balanced in general if the worst characters are equivalent to melees mid tiers haha. Anyway back on topic, I do think that building a good PM peach guide would be a good idea and theres probably enoough of use interested in helping out wit it. I certainly will contribute as much as possible although i don't consider myself to be that great of a player im still happy to help.

P.S kirk viewing the thread right after i call him god like...nice!

 

[TimeSmash]

Random question: Can Peach ladder her aerial glide toss like Diddy?

 

[Angrycuban]

Random question: Can Peach ladder her aerial glide toss like Diddy?

dont think so. Never tried though

 

[deadjames]

I'm not sure either, but I doubt it since she's a floaty, I think the fact that Diddy is a fast faller is what makes it possible for him

 

[G13_Flux]

a lot of the top tiers do probably have at least slightly advantageous MUs against peach (although not all of them), but thats why i think she stays a solid high tier. who below that can contest with her? despite her slow speed she actually does have a pretty good neutral game with her turnips, the addition of GT/AGT, her float, and her extremely meaty hitboxes. because of her float cancels, she supplies pressure very well. and she can space well with turnips to giver her a lot of added rage, as well as cover multiple options on the opponents part. GT/AGT helps her bait out a lot of moves that would otherwise go through turnips, like CFs and marths nairs, with her dash attack still being a great punishing option. on top of this, she is incredibly difficult to approach in general because of her float and FC aerials. she can float above characters that like to projectile camp, and she can actually nair through a lot of projectiles as well. shes also been given a bit of extra kill power, with her fsmash as a good punish onstage for missed sweetspots, and her side b as a good tech chasing tool/potential edgeguarding move. its distance makes it actually hard to punish many times.

because of peaches surprisingly powerful neutral and pressure game, being difficult to approach AND combo, as well as possessing one of the best edge guarding games, and one of the best recoveries, a lot of characters have difficulty transitioning to kill her. her worst MUs come from characters with very quick speed as well as well as range and disjoint (AKA marth, shiek, falcon, roy, ZSS, Pit, MK, and possibly wolf). again, many of the ones i just mentioned are likely top tier contenders anyways. this leaves peach a good opportunity to fill in right below them, somewhere in the high tier.

as far a guide goes (like this thread was supposed to discuss lol), i think a good layout to use is something like this:
Neutral game:
-CCing
-Bait and punish between GT/AGT and FC Fairs, dairs, nairs, etc.
-dash attack
Pressure game:
-general transtion to pressure using jabs, dsmashes, or grabs from FCs
General Combo tactics/Tech chasing
-general combo set ups (grabs, dtilt, dair, uair)
-general tech chasing meanuevers (dash attack, side b, turnips)
Killing/Edgeguarding
-onstage (frying pan, side b, maybe a lucky bomb or stitch face)
-offstage (floating with nair, bair, or dair > nair/bair, turnips, side b or neutral b sometimes)

obviously this would go more in depth to specific meanuevers as well as more specific situations, and a detailed description of her important moves in each case.

 

[deadjames]

I agree with most of your post, but Peach definitely wins against Pit.

 

[G13_Flux]

idk pits a lot faster than peach not only on the ground, but he also has a way more mobility in the air than most characters have. he also a decent disjoint with his sword, AND he has a really really annoying projectile, one that actually is one of the few moves that can successfully help edge guard peach. that right there is a lot to brag about in this MU. he can also be sort of difficult to edge guard. I would still say that pit wins. peach just isnt fast enough to deal with his speed AND range.

 

[TimeSmash]

Just posted a new thread discussing Peach Topics, which isn't exactly a How To Use Peach thread, but a good start

 

[deadjames]

idk pits a lot faster than peach not only on the ground, but he also has a way more mobility in the air than most characters have. he also a decent disjoint with his sword, AND he has a really really annoying projectile, one that actually is one of the few moves that can successfully help edge guard peach. that right there is a lot to brag about in this MU. he can also be sort of difficult to edge guard. I would still say that pit wins. peach just isnt fast enough to deal with his speed AND range.

I'm not super well-versed in the MU, but I've heard multiple Pit players complain that it's one of his worst.

 

[G13_Flux]

hmm. how sure are you of their skill at the game? i suppose there are a few things that could work in peach's favor. pits shield pressure isnt exactly spectacular by any means. im sure peach can easily nair or grab OOS to avoid most of his pressure. Additionally, peach's own shield pressure does work very effectively, and pit wont be able to punish her FCs on shield. i dont think pit has the best coverage 45 degrees above him either, which is one of the reasons that they ice climbers have such a bad MU against peach in melee. it might be hard for pit to land a killing blow on peach as well.

the other issue is that i literally cant find a single match on youtube that is a peach player vs a pit player, let alone two notable players. i have very little MU experience against any remotely good pit players, so its hard to judge based on play time. Pit seems to have a lot of the qualities that give peach players a hard time though, but who knows.

 

[Angrycuban]

Kinda random but I'm wondering, how often do you guys AGT with peach? I've been trying out some weird gimmicky stuff with it that's been working but its not an integral part of my game or anything. I dunno if I'm missing out on something here

 

[deadjames]

I AGT like all the time, almost every time I pull a turnip I either do a grounded or aerial glide toss. Sometimes I z-drop them, but I rarely ever use a regular toss.

 

[Angrycuban]

I AGT like all the time, almost every time I pull a turnip I either do a grounded or aerial glide toss. Sometimes I z-drop them, but I rarely ever use a regular toss.

today i full hopped above some one, aerial glide tossed to their other side and threw the turnip down so it bounced on their shield over and over then i FC a low back air on the back of their shield and down smashed which caught their roll out of shield haha. I really should use it more often i think

 

[Angrycuban]

Killing/Edgeguarding
-onstage (frying pan, side b, maybe a lucky bomb or stitch face)

what do you mean by this? I feel like i use side b more than most peaches, I actually think its an effective tool after a down throw and a few other gimmicky things, but I haven't found a way to use it as an on stage edge guard? Please elaborate haha this sounds awesome

 

[G13_Flux]

Agt is useful for not committing to aerial approaches. its also good for general positioning in the air if you are trying to continue juggles or confuse a recovering opponent. it just gives you an additional movement option to better aim your turnips and keep your opponent guessing. Grounded GT is great OOS on opponents trying to space on shield, for giving yourself some space with the turnip to cover you, or for approaching in general.

Also, a grounded side b can be used to punish missed sweet spots, or if you know your opponent is trying to recover horizontally, you can side b right off the edge to intercept them. Its definitely not her most reliable option, but when used less frequently it's a great mix up that yields probably the best reward outside of a bomb or stitch face

 

[Angrycuban]

Agt is useful for not committing to aerial approaches. its also good for general positioning in the air if you are trying to continue juggles or confuse a recovering opponent. it just gives you an additional movement option to better aim your turnips and keep your opponent guessing. Grounded GT is great OOS on opponents trying to space on shield, for giving yourself some space with the turnip to cover you, or for approaching in general

yea the grounded toss out of shield is definitely a great option. Ive also been using AGT from the edge occasionally as a pseudo double laser from the edge. Its not the best option ever (i usually just jump and nair or something) but it works in certain situations