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Brinstar, Poke Floats, or Mute City?

If you had to add one counterpick to the stage list, which of these would you pick?

  • Brinstar

    Votes: 9 20.0%
  • Poke Floats

    Votes: 11 24.4%
  • Mute City

    Votes: 25 55.6%

  • Total voters
    45

LiteralGrill

Smokin' Hot~
Joined
Dec 9, 2012
Messages
5,976
Location
Wisconsin
I figured I bring in a fun and simple poll. Let's say we get back to EVO next year and they say we have to add one more counterpick stage to the game (insanely unlikely, but remember this is for fun). You have a choice between some of the last stages that ended up being banned pretty much everywhere in Melee, which one of these would you take?

Maybe you'd even like to explain why in a post below. Happy voting folks!
 

cisyphus

Smash Ace
Joined
May 2, 2014
Messages
672
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
Brinstar is the most fair I think. Mute City's lack of platforms really hurts everybody that can't recover very well and helps those whose main gameplan centers edgeguarding (ehem, Fox Falco Sheik Puff Marth) while still having a damaging floor at times (like Brinstar). Pokefloats is a joke that need never be discussed. I think when you look at the stages closely, the differences between them are so distinct it's amazing that we even need to discuss this:

Legal: You can't mess these up, honestly
Battlefield (Truest neutral stage; even the Battlefield'd element is negligent given other opportunities it offers)
Dreamland 64 (Wispy upsets a lot of the balance here, but it genuinely is better than Battlefield aside)
Fountain of Dreams (Why exactly is this stage so bad? Random platforms are far better than a lot of things)
Yoshi's Story (Tiny blast zones are rough and Shy Guys occasionally interrupt the flow of a combo)
Final Destination (The lack of platforms opens the doors for chain grabs and tech chases for days)
Pokemon Stadium (Transformations suck, but its default is the best platform arrangement in the game)

Almost Counterpick: In good company with a solid attitude, these can be fair

Jungle Japes (The most dramatic problem is the klaptraps. Not much else is too horrible here)
Kongo Jungle (Kinda like WarioWare with better blastzones. The side rock is an issue, though)
Brinstar (The acid is severely limiting at times, but helpful at others. Platform design is solid)
Kongo Jungle 64 (About as large as Dreamland, but could allow for circle camping with the high platforms)
Mute City (Lack of grabbable edges, damaging floor, and set-pattern hazards aside, it's a decent stage)
Great Bay (Spacies do well to circle camp this stage)

Casually Acceptable: When you're a few brews deep, these start to be a good idea
Rainbow Cruise (I will back this stage to no end, but understand fully how obnoxious it gets)
Onett (Walk-offs...)
Yoshi's Island 64 (It's a tad too large and cloud camping is viable for a moderate amount of time)
Brinstar Depths (I could honestly see some worth in this stage, but I'd need to play it more to see how it works)
Princess Peach's Castle (The walls kinda kill it, but otherwise it's one of the most balanced in this group)
Green Greens (The close blast zones are ridiculous and the bombs are troubling and allow for unbalanced play)
Big Blue (As far as mobile stages go, this is the most acceptable)
Fourside (the pits only REALLY hurt Ness, and so long as nobody wall-jump camps, it's an interesting stage)
Venom (The walls are tricky, and the sloped platforms make playing difficult for some)
Corneria (That low ceiling? That wall? Arwing hazards? Yeah no)
Yoshi's Island (Walk off sloped edge? Fox has a field day here. That's even before the breakable floor)
Mushroom Kingdom II (The walk-off edges are bad, Birdo's bad, but the center area is lovely)

No: Literally would refuse to play if this came up
Mushroom Kingdom (The walk-off is a huge issue here, along with the dumb-as-hell block gimmick)
Temple (It's big and dumb)
Flatzone (It's tiny and dumb)
Icicle Mountain (It's boring and dumb)
Poke Floats (It's just dumb)

I like a lot of stages that are banned, but there's no reason to bring them into the mix; I never get bored playing the 5 and a half legal stages we have already. We certainly COULD expand the list and give more bans to make this a thing, but just look at how Project M tournaments run right now compared to how succinct and fluid Melee is.
 
Last edited:

Xyzz

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Messages
2,170
Location
Gensokyan Embassy, Munich, Germany
Mute City's lack of platforms really hurts everybody that can't recover very well and helps those whose main gameplan centers edgeguarding (ehem, Fox Falco Sheik Puff Marth) while still having a damaging floor at times (like Brinstar).
I like how your list of characters that benefit greatly from MC fails to include Peach ;)

I'd say, and I guess many people would agree that she and puff benefit the most from the stage, whereas Marth and Sheik are actually hurt pretty badly from losing the option of recovering to the ledge.


@ topic: depends on what my goal would be... MC if I wanted to maximize my chances to win (yay Peach); Brinstar imho is the fairest of those three; and I maybe Pokefloats if we could agree to force everybody involved to play Bowser whenever that stage is chosen.
 

Japsy

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jul 15, 2013
Messages
171
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JipC
Mute City, definetly. Hard to fight in general on moving stages so PokeFloats is out. Brinstar is booty butts so that one is out too (seriously even since the N64 days I've never met anyone who actually likes it). Mute City has it's fair share of neutraliy with lots of wackiness thrown in (the cars, moving platform, random parts of the floor that are slippery for some reason)
 

cisyphus

Smash Ace
Joined
May 2, 2014
Messages
672
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
I like how your list of characters that benefit greatly from MC fails to include Peach ;)

I'd say, and I guess many people would agree that she and puff benefit the most from the stage, whereas Marth and Sheik are actually hurt pretty badly from losing the option of recovering to the ledge.


@ topic: depends on what my goal would be... MC if I wanted to maximize my chances to win (yay Peach); Brinstar imho is the fairest of those three; and I maybe Pokefloats if we could agree to force everybody involved to play Bowser whenever that stage is chosen.
I honestly forget how good Peach's edgeguarding is (and I was speaking directly to edgeguarding there).
 

Thor

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
2,009
Location
UIUC [school year]. MN [summer]
Brinstar. The acid isn't that bad (yeah it's annoying but almost always non-lethal), it has actual ledges, and the stage splitting doesn't interfere much. Mute City cars are irritating, and some parts of the stage lack ledges, which advantages some and disadvantages others, as noted. While I personally like Poke Floats, I'm pretty sure Fox can abuse the crap out of that stage, and we don't need to be giving Fox a second stage he really really likes (the first being Pokémon Stadium). It's not as bad as many people make it out, but that's because most people try to make this seem like the most evil stage ever (besides Big Blue, which admittedly risks circle-camping, although it's fortunately not that hard to break there).

Just my simply breakdown though.
 

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
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Northern IL
This is a weird poll. Brinstar and Mute City overlap in usage: they are both peach/puff counterpicks because of the large blastzone, ground hazards, and how the stage changes. Pokefloats overlaps with Rainbow cruise for obvious reasons. To include one counterpick without balancing it with one from another category would be a bad idea.
 

menotyou135

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 22, 2013
Messages
313
Location
Tampa FL
TBH, my favorite banned map is DK 64. If it weren't for floaty camping, it would be a fine level. No hazards, grabable edges, unique platform design, ability to approach projectile users via the ditch in the middle, unique recovery options through the bottom of the stage, near dreamland size blast zones. It would benefit certain characters who have troubles with spacies's lasers.


Out of the ones listed though, I like mute city the best. There aren't enough non-3 plat maps right now (the only two being FD and PS), so the map list greatly benefits characters who like plats.

Granted the characters that don't like plats are usually high tier characters, so I understand the problem. Also, the lack of grab-able edges on the main platform is pretty dumb.


At the end of the day though, I feel like brinestar is the best of the ones listed. It helps characters with bad recoveries such as Falco, Gannondorf, Mario, DK, Bowser, Shiek, C. Falcon, and it is awkward for spacie lasers. It's platforms are unorthodox, but not bad.

The biggest problem is lava, but certain characters benefit from the lava which is the point of a counterpick. It also is the only one listed that has grabable ledges.
 
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