Breaking the rolling habit?

[Tito Maas]

I seem to have a habit of rolling to get into offensive position and over-relying on rolling defensively.

I'm sure I'm not the first one to have had this problem--does anyone have any methods they used to break this habit? I guess it all comes down just not rolling but it seems like that's a bit harder a

Can anyone also explain how to get proper spacing offensively without utilizing the inefficient roll? Dashing? And what about the dash lag?

What are the pros and cons of rolling, if any besides the basic dodge?

 

[Axel311]

I've been working on throwing in some spot dodges here and there as a mixup to my rolls because I've recently notice that I literally never spot dodge. Not sure if I roll too much, but I do feel like mine are somewhat easy to read. Yeah like anything else you never want to overuse any move...rolling too much is absolutely exploitable.

 

[Tito Maas]

I've been working on throwing in some spot dodges here and there as a mixup to my rolls because I've recently notice that I literally never spot dodge. Not sure if I roll too much, but I do feel like mine are somewhat easy to read. Yeah like anything else you never want to overuse any move...rolling too much is absolutely exploitable.

I've actually cut down my rolling a lot less by mixing in a lot more spot dodges and it's increased my longevity in matches, but when I play people who are a lot better than me they still say I roll too much. I'm guessing rolling should be a last resort option more than anything. I never really see the pros do a lot of rolling or air dodging.

 

[Blablabug]

If you have friends to play with, you can try to play a match against them with them only being offensive and you defensive. It could allow you by only focusing on finding the best way to replicate in every situation. But it doesn't mean you don't have to attack your opponent, it means you have to do it after you successfully avoid the hit, for example, with some characters and against some ones, you can spot dodge and do a down smash.
Now about the spacing, it depends of the character you're playing, some can do it with their tilts, other with their aerials or their specials. You can also try to power shield when a foe is getting too close and you see he is not going for the grab then grab them yourself to throw them away (even though it is better to go for a throw combo in this case). What you need not to forget too is that there are characters like Captain Falcon and Meta Knight who don't rely on the defensive play.
I hope this helps you.

 

[Hydreigon360]

Rolling when overused will be predictable and very punishable as you cannot act straight away out of rolling. Often there are better movement options in situations other than rolling. What I did was change my taunt button to roll, so then you use it less often for avoiding attacks and putting you in favorable situations. NAKAT recommended the idea publicly, and it works. It forces you to consider other movement options

 

[Eggggggggggbert]

Rolling when overused will be predictable and very punishable as you cannot act straight away out of rolling. Often there are better movement options in situations other than rolling. What I did was change my taunt button to roll, so then you use it less often for avoiding attacks and putting you in favorable situations. NAKAT recommended the idea publicly, and it works. It forces you to consider other movement options

This seems like a good idea to me. Nothing decreases usage more than working against muscle memory.

 

[TheYash]

I turned off my shield in the controller setting, I changed button to grab so I can grab and air dodge with it.
It helped me a bit

 

[Blazerator]

Jumping away works for some characters.

 

[Guillaume1987]

Well call me crazy, but remove your shield from your controller options for a few matches and you'll have to rely on actual movement, jumps and spacing to help you. It will open the door for improvement.

 

[GhostUrsa]

I seem to have a habit of rolling to get into offensive position and over-relying on rolling defensively.

I'm sure I'm not the first one to have had this problem--does anyone have any methods they used to break this habit? I guess it all comes down just not rolling but it seems like that's a bit harder a

Can anyone also explain how to get proper spacing offensively without utilizing the inefficient roll? Dashing? And what about the dash lag?

What are the pros and cons of rolling, if any besides the basic dodge?

Rolling as a fundamental has these pros and cons:
Pro:
smaller hurtbox
some invincibility frames
a reliable distance
ending animation faces the opponent (when used as designed)

Cons:
Rolling distance has no variance
Ending lag
Limited options out of roll

Rolling has more benefits than disadvantages, but the three disadvantages are actually very debilitating. They almost outbalance the pros. The first two Cons are why high level players are able to punish and abuse the rolls since they can intuitively know when you'll be vulnerable and where to strike. The third con makes it so that you can't keep pressure up offensively (if you always roll behind your opponent, they'll catch on and you'll never land a hit) and you can stop someone from rushing down on you if they know you'll be rolling away.

Offensive spacing is a fundamental that really takes practice and knowledge of your character to maximize. When approaching an opponent, you can dash, walk, short hop, full hop, roll (not an ideal choice, but it's there) and for some characters Side-B to close in the distance. Each of these options have different options to use out of them, (You can dash-grab, dash-attack, slide into OoS options or run through with a dash, while short hops can be empty, approached with F-air or N-air and even fast falled into a dash for example) which means practice is necessary to know how your opponent handles a situation and what tools you should use to get around them.

Defensive Spacing follows a similar notion but in reverse. You can roll away, dash dance (Start dashing one way, and then immediately dash the other), dash into a pivoted attack, use retreating aerials (short hop backwards and use an attack as you are rising), block and spot dodge.

All of these options have their uses, and the best way to inquire on these would probably be on a question-basis. Othewise, you'll have a long page of text (much like this one) that could very well miss something. Play some matches, practice 'achievement' focused habits (This match I plan to use a retreating aerial 5 times. Winning doesn't matter, only my achievement) and hit us up with questions on specific approaches (or retreats) that seem to vex you.

 

[DeleteThisAcct]

A friend of mine once pointed out that I roll a bit excessively, but at least make proper use of it. When I asked what should I do about it, their reply was, "If you wanna learn how to play Smash 4 without rolling a lot spend some time with Smash 64. That will force the rolling and shielding right out of you lmao. I kid you not, shieldpunish and stun in that game is so brutal. You need movement as a defense or you're toast."

EDIT: Replaced paraphrased quote with verbatim quote.

 

[Eggggggggggbert]

Rolling as a fundamental has these pros and cons:
Pro:
smaller hurtbox
some invincibility frames
a reliable distance
ending animation faces the opponent (when used as designed)

Cons:
Rolling distance has no variance
Ending lag
Limited options out of roll

Rolling has more benefits than disadvantages, but the three disadvantages are actually very debilitating. They almost outbalance the pros. The first two Cons are why high level players are able to punish and abuse the rolls since they can intuitively know when you'll be vulnerable and where to strike. The third con makes it so that you can't keep pressure up offensively (if you always roll behind your opponent, they'll catch on and you'll never land a hit) and you can stop someone from rushing down on you if they know you'll be rolling away.

Offensive spacing is a fundamental that really takes practice and knowledge of your character to maximize. When approaching an opponent, you can dash, walk, short hop, full hop, roll (not an ideal choice, but it's there) and for some characters Side-B close in the distance. Each of these options have different options to use out of them, (You can dash-grab, dash-attack, slide into OoS options or run through with a dash, while short hops can be empty, approached with F-air or N-air and even fast falled into a dash for example) which means practice is necessary to know how your opponent handles a situation and what tools you should use to get around them.

Defensive Spacing follows a similar notion but in reverse. You can roll away, dash dance (Start dashing one way, and then immediately dash the other), dash into a pivoted attack, use retreating aerials (short hop backwards and use an attack as you are rising) and spot dodge.

All of these options have their uses, and the best way to inquire on these would probably be on a question-basis. Othewise, you'll have a long page of text (much like this one) that could very well miss something. Play some matches, practice 'achievement' focused habits (This match I plan to use a retreating aerial 5 times. Winning doesn't matter, only my achievement) and hit us up with questions on specific approaches (or retreats) that seem to vex you.

A friend of mine once pointed out that I roll a bit excessively, but at least make proper use of it. When I asked what should I do about it, their reply was, "If you wanna learn how to play Smash 4 without rolling a lot spend some time with Smash 64. That will force the rolling and shielding right out of you lmao. I kid you not, shieldpunish and stun in that game is so brutal. You need movement as a defense or you're toast."

EDIT: Replaced paraphrased quote with verbatim quote.

I think between both of these posts, you have literally everything you need to know from a technical and practical standpoint in regards to rolling. Very well said.