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Breaking the Ice - Ice Climbers DLC Discussion Thread - Under New Ownership!

ihskeyp

ihskeyp

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ferioku said:
I fail to believe my Melee Main is gone, people keep saying Ice Climbers are gone and there is no evidence of that! The polar bear is back and I doubt Sakurai will put him in to annoy people T_T
Click to expand...
Eh, ignore them. Those are the gullible people who are falling for the leak.
 
ferioku

ferioku

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I main Ice Climbers in Melee, would be awful if htey left anyway. Also I'm thinking, maybe they could make Ice Climbers like Rosalina? Make Popo the main fighter and Nana the puppet like character, and she returns after dying?
 
Dynamo68

Dynamo68

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ferioku said:
I main Ice Climbers in Melee, would be awful if htey left anyway. Also I'm thinking, maybe they could make Ice Climbers like Rosalina? Make Popo the main fighter and Nana the puppet like character, and she returns after dying?
Click to expand...
Who knows? Regardless, they'll definitely be back.
 
E

EdgeTheLucas

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Messages
1,695
If the Icies came back (I hate having to say "if" in face of the leak), then they need to be, above all else, easier to desync. Like Rosalina, one of their moves should communicate to the player "Okay, they're separated now, and wherever Popo moves Nana moves but 3 feet away."

I think Belay should be improved to better have this aspect since it already desyncs them already anyway. Whenever you use it, it now sorta acts like Yoshi's Egg Toss, where Popo throws Nana in a similar trajectory. Keep in mind that Yoshi can now throw eggs straight ahead of him, too, so Popo should be able to do this with Nana.

After Nana is thrown to a certain spot, it'll look like they're connected with the rope they use when recovering. While they're connected, Nana will act like Popo does at the distance away from where Popo threw her. From there, you should be able to do Icies shenanigans from the previous games much easier, but with a catch--after being hit, Nana's rope will be cut and she'll stop mimicking Popo to just start running towards him, like past Smash games. As such, it gains its own strengths and weaknesses--it's easier to desync them but it also makes Nana even more vulnerable than before.

Finally, if you decide that you want Nana closer again, just press up-B again and Popo will reel Nana back in with their rope. This also acts as a sort of tether recovery where, if you're trying to recover back onto the ledge, you just throw Nana there, and pressing up-B again will instead have Nana reel Popo back in.

Since it's theoretically much, much easier to desync them, I think Wobbling and their infamous chaingrabbing should be cut as compensation. I'm not sure how to do this, maybe editing Nana's AI where throwing the opponent to her and having her grab him / her will have Nana immediately throw the opponent up or down or something, so she can't pummel. But I definitely think that chaingrabbing wasn't an intended design choice for them and the concept of chaingrabbing is polarizing (pun not intended) as it is, and desyncing should be their central strength instead.

Keep in mind, however, that while this is not coming from an Icies main, exactly (use this knowledge to either disregard what I have to say, or not), it's still coming from someone who

A) wants every character's core concept understood and able to be utilized within about 5 minutes (Icies in past Smash games have been notoriously hard to use, for little gain besides things like auto-win techniques, i.e. Wobbling), and

B) doesn't want any character to be overlooked by most simply because they're much more difficult to use than another character using the same concept (Rosalina is inevitably gonna be compared to the Icies and seen as easier to use as a result).

So, having watched this thread for a while now, I'd like to hear some thoughts on this change. Is it better? Is it worse? A friend of mine doesn't like the change simply because it, well, changes them, but I disagree because it makes their overall design philosophy cleaner and easier to get a grasp of, while also opening up new possibilities on top of old Ice Climber techniques. I ask again here because I'm sure a higher repository of Icies mains reside here, and I'd like to ask beyond just my friend to get a better sample of opinions.
 
Dynamo68

Dynamo68

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Messages
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EdgeTheLucas said:
If the Icies came back (I hate having to say "if" in face of the leak), then they need to be, above all else, easier to desync. Like Rosalina, one of their moves should communicate to the player "Okay, they're separated now, and wherever Popo moves Nana moves but 3 feet away."

I think Belay should be improved to better have this aspect since it already desyncs them already anyway. Whenever you use it, it now sorta acts like Yoshi's Egg Toss, where Popo throws Nana in a similar trajectory. Keep in mind that Yoshi can now throw eggs straight ahead of him, too, so Popo should be able to do this with Nana.

After Nana is thrown to a certain spot, it'll look like they're connected with the rope they use when recovering. While they're connected, Nana will act like Popo does at the distance away from where Popo threw her. From there, you should be able to do Icies shenanigans from the previous games much easier, but with a catch--after being hit, Nana's rope will be cut and she'll stop mimicking Popo to just start running towards him, like past Smash games. As such, it gains its own strengths and weaknesses--it's easier to desync them but it also makes Nana even more vulnerable than before.

Finally, if you decide that you want Nana closer again, just press up-B again and Popo will reel Nana back in with their rope. This also acts as a sort of tether recovery where, if you're trying to recover back onto the ledge, you just throw Nana there, and pressing up-B again will instead have Nana reel Popo back in.

Since it's theoretically much, much easier to desync them, I think Wobbling and their infamous chaingrabbing should be cut as compensation. I'm not sure how to do this, maybe editing Nana's AI where throwing the opponent to her and having her grab him / her will have Nana immediately throw the opponent up or down or something, so she can't pummel. But I definitely think that chaingrabbing wasn't an intended design choice for them and the concept of chaingrabbing is polarizing (pun not intended) as it is, and desyncing should be their central strength instead.

Keep in mind, however, that while this is not coming from an Icies main, exactly (use this knowledge to either disregard what I have to say, or not), it's still coming from someone who

A) wants every character's core concept understood and able to be utilized within about 5 minutes (Icies in past Smash games have been notoriously hard to use, for little gain besides things like auto-win techniques, i.e. Wobbling), and

B) doesn't want any character to be overlooked by most simply because they're much more difficult to use than another character using the same concept (Rosalina is inevitably gonna be compared to the Icies and seen as easier to use as a result).

So, having watched this thread for a while now, I'd like to hear some thoughts on this change. Is it better? Is it worse? A friend of mine doesn't like the change simply because it, well, changes them, but I disagree because it makes their overall design philosophy cleaner and easier to get a grasp of, while also opening up new possibilities on top of old Ice Climber techniques. I ask again here because I'm sure a higher repository of Icies mains reside here, and I'd like to ask beyond just my friend to get a better sample of opinions.
Click to expand...
We'll just have to wait and see what happens.
 
Johnknight1

Johnknight1

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I'd prefer the desynching to be easier yeah, but I prefer it to also have a clear limit (like 10 feet, sans opponents landing attacks on one Ice Climber to separate them of course).

I'd want a very streamlined Ice Climbers, without the chain grabs (well may one Ice Climber grabbing and throwing them to another for combos), and with some cool Ice Climbers desynching combos.

Man, that would be pretty cool to see in Smash 4, especially since juggling appears easier than it was in any smash game since the original.

The Ice Climbers juggling = something I gotta see.
 
Dynamo68

Dynamo68

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Johnknight1 said:
I'd prefer the desynching to be easier yeah, but I prefer it to also have a clear limit (like 10 feet, sans opponents landing attacks on one Ice Climber to separate them of course).

I'd want a very streamlined Ice Climbers, without the chain grabs (well may one Ice Climber grabbing and throwing them to another for combos), and with some cool Ice Climbers desynching combos.

Man, that would be pretty cool to see in Smash 4, especially since juggling appears easier than it was in any smash game since the original.

The Ice Climbers juggling = something I gotta see.
Click to expand...
Would be pretty interesting if that happens. We'll just have to wait and see. BTW, I love your avatar. Ridley is badass.
 
Thunderfang747

Thunderfang747

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Laniv

Laniv

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Lucina is staying perfectly still here:


That's more than a little weird...
 
Donalp15

Donalp15

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There are characters missing and basically they can't increase the ESRB rating, so no sexual themes or crude humour.
Ice climbers have neither so they are still in the running!
:160:
 
Maxoxpower

Maxoxpower

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it' can't be? they CAN'T remove the ice climbers...i don't use them but i love them.
 
Donalp15

Donalp15

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Dynamo68 said:
Yeah. What are your thoughts on the supposed gameplay videos? Anything fake or believable about them?
Click to expand...
I thought they might be a brawl mod, but they look way too complicated for that. I think they are likely real.
 
Dynamo68

Dynamo68

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MagnesD3 said:
I hope wolf is alright as well as Ic's we can lose neither, it would be as bad as mewtwo
Click to expand...
Well, for your sake, I hope you're right.

Edit: BTW, I just saw on GoNintendo that Nintendo have "nothing to announce" regarding the leaks. So there's still hope for the Ice Climbers.
 
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CosmicGlitch

CosmicGlitch

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May 12, 2014
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Pay Attention To This ​
i.imgur.com/QiibRz7.png allstar mode is locked (the lock in this picture) allstar mode is only unlocked when all the characters are unlocked. just thought id post it. further more if the ESRB are the ones leaking it. they only get a dvd with footage on it so they have no inside information on who is cut or not. its all speculation based on what they themselves have seen. and since that lock is there it should prove that they havnt seen everything. dont give up hope everyone
 
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A

aaron1290

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Joined
Aug 20, 2014
Messages
4
CosmicGlitch said:
i.imgur.com/QiibRz7.png allstar mode is locked (the lock in this picture) allstar mode is only unlocked when all the characters are unlocked. just thought id post it. further more if the ESRB are the ones leaking it. they only get a dvd with footage on it so they have no inside information on who is cut or not. its all speculation based on what they themselves have seen. and since that lock is there it should prove that they havnt seen everything. dont give up hope everyone
Click to expand...
I hope its ice climbers...
 
CosmicGlitch

CosmicGlitch

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Messages
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aaron1290 said:
I hope its ice climbers...
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there are 5 spaces in the leaked roster that could be filled and only 4 vets missing
lucas, wolf, snake, ice climbers. so i cant say anything for sure but i still have hope and so should everyone else
 
cmbsfm

cmbsfm

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what information did the leaker base his cuts on? he puts an x on other characters but outs a ? on mewtwo?
I'll miss every single cut, all were good unqiue characters
 
CosmicGlitch

CosmicGlitch

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cool mario bros said:
what information did the leaker base his cuts on? he puts an x on other characters but outs a ? on mewtwo?
I'll miss every single cut, all were good unqiue characters
Click to expand...
read what i posted earlier there is still hope. and again if it is the ESRB leaking it then they have no inside knowledge outside of what the dvd nintendo sent them had on it. they cant say who is cut
 
cmbsfm

cmbsfm

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CosmicGlitch said:
read what i posted earlier there is still hope. and again if it is the ESRB leaking it then they have no inside knowledge outside of what the dvd nintendo sent them had on it. they cant say who is cut
Click to expand...
I did, but I'm curious as to what they based the cuts of off?
 
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