Brawl shouldn't exist

[SanMarcosMelee]

THOUGHTS>?

 

[_Keno_]

This is a blog thread, not a debate hall discussion thread.

Too many people are making posts/threads like this...

 

[Sucumbio]

This is a blog thread, not a debate hall discussion thread.

Too many people are making posts/threads like this...

Yeah, no proving ground means no buffer. Alas. But i suppose every forum has its spam

 

[Claire Diviner]

Perhaps we should have a meeting to discuss quality control and maybe bring The Debate Hall to its previous format back when Smashboards used that older forum server (Vbulletin, was it)? Just a thought.

 

[-AngelGamah-]

Personally I thought brawl was pretty cool, other than online wifi, meta knight. Smash games are meant to improve right? It was kinda better then melee in some areas, but worse in others.

 

[Sucumbio]

-_-



...


I can't sigh loud enough.
Maybe @GoldShadow could ask someone

 

[_Keno_]

I was thinking about asking for some sort of quality control a few weeks ago, but I wasn't sure if anyone would be into that.

 

[-AngelGamah-]

Maybe I should try downloading PM since nobody but me plays brawl at this house. But pretty rarely since I have the best thing since, well, you know, brawl, 3ds game. Yeah I know WiiU one is out, but I'm content with what I can get. No WiiU here, but to me less is more in this case. Think about it. More content means more data right? WiiU shows a LOT of it. I think I see this coming but tell me if I'm wrong, but unless you have the ZUES of Internet compatibility, you're screwed in wifi matches with items on a 4 ppl smash. Not because of JUST your wifis trying to connect at once, but most stages have backgrounds that move. Even in Omega form. Depending how fast the characters are, the faster it will try to load, thus, lag. Or should I say "ready!...............x222" brawls wifi was horrible because of the limitations we could fix the wifi issue with. This one will NOT be as bad, but still. I'd stick to "with friends." I also liked the story they did. The only thing that threw me off was them making Lucas all scared-ey cat. The graphics were pretty great for the wii. Consider that, not above other systems. Over all I'd say 7/10 in this time. In 2007-2012 it was 8.5/10.

 

[-AngelGamah-]

Oh! And the 3ds doesn't lag as much in 1v1 matches or for friends. Even 4v4 is pretty ok. And before you call me out on being a stupid casual player, I've been playing since melee, I just joined THIS a bit ago. I live for competitive. I should use items a little more so I know them... XD

 

[GreenFlame]

Maybe I should try downloading PM since nobody but me plays brawl at this house. But pretty rarely since I have the best thing since, well, you know, brawl, 3ds game. Yeah I know WiiU one is out, but I'm content with what I can get. No WiiU here, but to me less is more in this case. Think about it. More content means more data right? WiiU shows a LOT of it. I think I see this coming but tell me if I'm wrong, but unless you have the ZUES of Internet compatibility, you're screwed in wifi matches with items on a 4 ppl smash. Not because of JUST your wifis trying to connect at once, but most stages have backgrounds that move. Even in Omega form. Depending how fast the characters are, the faster it will try to load, thus, lag. Or should I say "ready!...............x222" brawls wifi was horrible because of the limitations we could fix the wifi issue with. This one will NOT be as bad, but still. I'd stick to "with friends." I also liked the story they did. The only thing that threw me off was them making Lucas all scared-ey cat. The graphics were pretty great for the wii. Consider that, not above other systems. Over all I'd say 7/10 in this time. In 2007-2012 it was 8.5/10.

All the data is already on the disc....the only data that's transferred mid-match is the inputs of players.

 

[-AngelGamah-]

All the data is already on the disc....the only data that's transferred mid-match is the inputs of players.

Ah. Ok.

 

[greatbernard]

Super Smash Bros. Brawl is an underrated game. No, it doesn't match up to Melee or SSB4 but I would say it's still in the top 5-10 greatest fighting games of its generation.

 

[FirestormNeos]

Actually it should. Otherwise that dreadful Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale would have total control over the 7th generation mascot-fighter-that-doesn't-use-a-health-bar-because-screw-tradition genre.

And that's not good.

 

[-AngelGamah-]

Super Smash Bros. Brawl is an underrated game. No, it doesn't match up to Melee or SSB4 but I would say it's still in the top 5-10 greatest fighting games of its generation.

Exactly.

 

[Th3 Ice King]

I have to say the Brawl vs Melee conversation is similar to Mac and PC. They are both different products that different people like. I am not sure as to why such animosity arises between the two other than the fact of arguing over weather one holds legitimacy over the other. Personally I hate brawl, but that's not to say it shouldn't exist or be competitive.

For 14 years I played Dota, this same argument exists between Dota Players and League players. Just because they are both MOBAs doesn't mean only one is the correct Moba. At the same time I can see why the competitive scene argues against its existence because of games of skill vs games of chance. In order to promote the concept of esports or games of skill variability from the software needs to kept at a minimum. Balancing issues are a big part of variability. I like that PM works to keep things more balanced as possible where Brawl is the same as release date. On that note, if the point of discussion is legitimacy of being dubbed competitive esport versus just competitive I would give my backing to PM over Brawl.

Even though I hate brawl, its still fun as hell as a party game for sure. Every smashbros game has been like that.

 

[Sucumbio]

I am not sure as to why such animosity arises between the two other than the fact of arguing over weather one holds legitimacy over the other. Personally I hate brawl, but that's not to say it shouldn't exist or be competitive.

Well that's actually why the animosity... Melee fans really felt insulted by Brawl. If you have something really complex, and people try really hard to get good at it, to compete to learn who's the best of the best, and then come out with a sequel that's far less complex, how will that make you feel? As if you wasted a lot of effort? Perhaps... and if you feel that way, and don't like it, what will you do? Go back to Melee, because at least there's a really payoff for being "good." In the Brawl competitive scene, it's less noteworthy to be good at it. Which I found unfortunate, really, because I learned on Brawl, and still don't play as well as many pros, and they're like "oh we're past this game now, what you're mastering now we mastered 5 years ago, sucks to be you."

It's all good. Smash 4 is out now and it's being received really well by my friends, the ones who played Melee THIS WHOLE TIME and then dared to try Brawl 2.0 only to find out it really isn't Brawl 2.0 and it really is fun, fast, and a decent sequel to Melee. We even have a local tournament scene, FINALLY. I am thrilled. And I can get into it on the ground floor just like them. Does their previous Melee experience > my previous Brawl experience. I think no... I think that because Smash for WiiU is unique, all previous Smash fans will come into the game at the ground floor. Sure some will rise quicker than others, that's to be expected, but it won't be like Brawl, where everyone -expected- to be top ranked gods right off the bat and couldn't get there because tripping.

 

[-AngelGamah-]

Well that's actually why the animosity... Melee fans really felt insulted by Brawl. If you have something really complex, and people try really hard to get good at it, to compete to learn who's the best of the best, and then come out with a sequel that's far less complex, how will that make you feel? As if you wasted a lot of effort? Perhaps... and if you feel that way, and don't like it, what will you do? Go back to Melee, because at least there's a really payoff for being "good." In the Brawl competitive scene, it's less noteworthy to be good at it. Which I found unfortunate, really, because I learned on Brawl, and still don't play as well as many pros, and they're like "oh we're past this game now, what you're mastering now we mastered 5 years ago, sucks to be you."

It's all good. Smash 4 is out now and it's being received really well by my friends, the ones who played Melee THIS WHOLE TIME and then dared to try Brawl 2.0 only to find out it really isn't Brawl 2.0 and it really is fun, fast, and a decent sequel to Melee. We even have a local tournament scene, FINALLY. I am thrilled. And I can get into it on the ground floor just like them. Does their previous Melee experience > my previous Brawl experience. I think no... I think that because Smash for WiiU is unique, all previous Smash fans will come into the game at the ground floor. Sure some will rise quicker than others, that's to be expected, but it won't be like Brawl, where everyone -expected- to be top ranked gods right off the bat and couldn't get there because tripping.

My goodness tripping sucked. XD yeah I guess so. I only played melee for a little bit anyway when I was younger so I don't really know how it worked, but seeing a lot of melee vids recently I understand their side of view but I still like brawl. Could've been better though

 

[Th3 Ice King]

It just doesn't make sense to me, maybe because I am viewing it from 2014 and as a newer member of the melee community. Melee was made as a party game, but it countless things have been discovered to assist in its competitive development. Brawl was made also party game. Brawl was never intended to be competitive and why would you expect a game like Melee to be replaced int he first place.

This may be a bad example, but I think of it as Dota. I have played Dota since its creation as a Warcraft 3 Custom Map Game. Dota 2 conceptually is the same with some balancing a few more characters. It is almost as old as Melee and people still play Dota or (Dota 2) that have been in it since day. Why migrate from something that is already beautiful that you have a relationship with to something else. I understand games with internet connections have the ability to tweak where melee does not, but Melee doesn't really need to be tweaked.

As far as Project M, I love it. It attempts to "Dota update" the inadequacies of Brawl for the Melee style players. Love it. Still don't understand why so much animosity is there though.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Even if you like or hate Brawl it should exist as an example of good and bad ideas for the smash series.

Smash 4 in turn learned from it.

Project M did as well but backpedaled bad game design in Melee back into it.

 

[EZdelFresco]

Of course it should. Don't be ridiculous.

 

[yttik]

It shouldn't? What kind of debate thread is this?..

 

[TheEmeraldAxe]

I'd say that it is a good thing that smash exists. You see smash bros is getting so popular that every has their own kind of brawl. Like for pros the smash bros for you is Melee or project m. Where as for noobs or inexperienced players the smash bros for them is brawl. So I think it is good to have games like brawl as long as a Melee comes along every now and then.

 

[1amayzingman]

God forbid OP gets a copy of Brawl.

 

[LightlyToasted]

I also liked the story they did. The only thing that threw me off was them making Lucas all scared-ey cat. .

But Lucas IS a scaredey cat. Even in the Final Chapter of Mother 3

Spoiler

Lucas is able to grow because of the support he has from EVERYONE around him. Including the player. The only reason he keeps fighting is because of how dear those he wants to save are to him.(Claus)

The plot of subspace is similar, in that he starts out timid, but emboldened by the fact that he's fighting with friends, his true power shines through.

 

[1amayzingman]

ONE thing I would like to say was if it weren't for Brawl, we would have no Project M...so even if Brawl is a "terrible" game, it still serves a good purpose!

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

For people who liked PM I suppose.

It did open up smash modding a lot more than past games.

 

[AirFair]

I thought Brawl was a good game for having fun. Now that I got into Melee again, I don't really like it at all. It's still good tho.

 

[Armant Natu]

Brawl is the reason Project M exists so it's importance is immense.

 

[Dr. Doctor]

Ho boy, this is flame war bait if I've ever seen it.

Nonetheless, I don't regret spending a single hour on Brawl. The Subspace Emissary was awesome, the music was epic, it served me hours of fun with my friends (and still does), and its slow pace allowed me to get into Smash.

I do not consider Project M to be a factor of Brawl in terms of how good the game was. Yes, Project M gave it a competitive presence, but as a standalone game, Brawl is the only reason I started putting serious time into Smash.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Derailing a tad bit, if I may: You don't suppose Smash Wii U will be as moddable (if that's even a word) as Brawl was for Project M, Brawl +, Brawl -, etc.?

 

[_Keno_]

This entire topic should be closed, this is not debate even remotely.

That said, brawl brought a great deal of people into the melee scene. I enjoyed the game until I took it too seriously, then I hated it. P:M is probably the most enjoyable of the smash games, so I'm thankful for that as well.

I guess the TL:DR of this thread is: Brawl was terrible competitively, fun casually, and the results of how people dealt with it were great. (Modding community created, P:M, melee scene boost, etc)

 

[PKMudkip]

Sayin that Brawl shouldn't exist is like saying Pokemon shouldn't have wild Pokemon in tall grass. We may all hate it but we need it to have a unique gameplay experience. U sound like an obnoxious Melee fanboy by saying that.

 

[MrKandy]

If Brawl never existed, some people would have never played the Smash series (unless Melee/64 happened.) Anyways, this is not even a debate, honestly. Only replied because I was bored.

 

[Serperior]

Do I like it, nope. Should it have existed, yeah, without it we wouldnt have Project M xD

 

[Videogames888]

Keep in mind that SSBB was made for all types of gamers,which in return, increased the Smash community Intensely.Also,If Sakurai Made a SSB game SOLELY for technical players,it would get boring really quickly.Why do you think Brawl sold more copies than Melee.

No matter how much the game is critisized by the the community,It will always remain a major stepping stone in the SSB series

 

[Deleted member 269706]

Pain and suffering shouldn't exist.
Hunger and disease shouldn't exist.
War and hatred shouldn't exist.

Brawl isn't harming anyone you ignorant, closed minded, ****.

 

[ChocolateChipped]

To me Brawl should have existed because its a good smash bros game, but every smash bros game is good but not every smash bros game is for me or for you depending on the feel the characters its like pasta sauce its really good but not every pasta sauce it for me only a few are. Do you guys feel like this too?

 

[ansossy]

It took Brawl to make Sakurai realize that they can piss off the competitive community. Sometimes you have to hit great lows to get to such great highs such as the Great Depression to having one of America's Greatest Presidents during the time Franklin D. Roosevelt and he came in a time where there was horrible presidents most notoriously Warren G. Harding 10 years before him and Herbert Hoover before he took office. Or in the case of Obama who succeeded one of the worst Presidents in 80 years George W. Bush now we have Obama who is definitely one of the top 10 best presidents. With Brawl came Project M and various backlash within the competitive community. Now we have Smash 4 which is by far one a great balance of Melee and Brawl.

 

[Lugihui]

Brawl should exist. The end

 

[Legitimate Ted]

It took Brawl to get Smash 4. So while your thread sucks, yes, it should exist.