The walking speed that's the problem. It's the slowest in the game, and while walking, you can do anything you can do while standing. That's the reason why he loses so many options.
Bowser's walking speed is a hindrance, but he has quite a few moves that let him get close to an enemy and stop. For one example, all he has to do is a short hop. Two others, he can firebreath, which stops him cold and he can Whirling Fortress, which is steerable after launch and will end in standing posture. Depending on the situation they are both good for reposturing.
This has nothing to do with the discussion. Bowser's move set style is irrelevant other than the fact that they almost all involve risk.
The ability to apply offensive pressure to the enemy is borne of a couple factors.
1. The ability to get to the enemy
This is not really an issue with Bowser.
2. The ability to strike the enemy
This is what I am explaining by going over Bowser's attacks. He CAN strike the enemy.
3. The enemy's ability to defend or counterattack
And this is the key trick to using Bowser; getting around #3.
Everything you mentioned above agrees with my argument that Bowser is super defensive. Thank you.
I don't believe having solid attacks comprises a "super defensive" game.
Aerial Priority is what matters. G&W has near the same, but his Bair eats up anything. Airspeed is nothing if you lack priority in your aerials. Trading off hits is only true if they are indeed collided. This rarely happens to players who know their character well and know which aerials to abuse. Bowser can be hit out of any of his aerials with ease, it's just that the pay off from the Uair is too good, but this is easily avoided by airdodging.
Airspeed matters if you can control when, and how, the engagement happens. If you control 1., then 2. doesn't matter. By deciding how and when the two players meet, Bowser can dictate what circumstances will occur.
I know what you're saying, but unfortunately, his air speed might be good, but that doesn't help his approach if his aerials don't have priority.
Bowser's issues in his Priority stems from using the wrong move at the wrong time, or forcing/allowing a badly timed engagement.
If you jump at the enemy hoping to land your best Aerial, the Fwd+A, you are in for a cold shock. This is not how you win the air with Bowser... not anymore. The Fwd+A doesn't have the reach. But Firebreath usually does. Most often, I will jump at an enemy - and if they jump up after me, I will jump AWAY and Firebreath em'.
Bowser can use his airspeed to often engage foes air-to-ground, and this is the big ticket; every enemy comes down at some point, and with quicker airspeed, it's easier for Bowser to get in that "I am up and you are down" posture. Once you catch a grounded foe while you are in the air, you have every card in your hand.
You can breath, which is immobilizing damage. You can Klaw if your enemy Blockgrabs. You can even use neutral A if you suspect your opponent will jump at the last minute or it's a scramble. You can Down+B and completely break up the tempo of your attack, usually nailing a counterattacker. You can Up+B and completely change direction if the enemy does something wild you weren't expecting or gets above you somehow. You can even use the Down+A, which reveals a potent effect that is useless in air: When it touches down, it emits a shockwave with set knockback. This is excellent for three reasons: The attack is hard to roll around, it grinds so any contact means the shockwave will shove them, and it gets your opponent blocking from the ground more, which means air Klaw gets more effective. Combined with the minor damage grind effect, it sets you up perfectly for a Ground-Ground game; a few steps away, with your opponent reeling back in the low air, just in FB or short hop range.
Bowser's Air-Air game is ok; he lacks reach on a lot of his moves, but he packs a lot of punch. This means it's a good idea to chase a weak target into the air while they are reeling and go for a KO. Generally once you are hurt, you want to try for a Ground-to-Air confrontation, and depending how hurt, yeah you might want to Crouch-cancel or roll around a bit, or use Firebreath or Whirling to force something more amenable. Maybe even try for a Shell spike.
It's his Air-to-Ground game that shimmers. It's his best lane of attack.
It depends on how you look on it. A short roll could mean an easy UpB or grab. It could also mean you can dodge while still maintaining your position. It could also mean you can punish without having to move far.
Most critically, it means you will fail to escape your opponent's moves more often, and that's the reason you roll in the first place.
I agree with this. Shielding is part of a good defense game, but not the sum of it!
Bowser is VERY good at punishing advancing oppoenents, but not very good at advancing himself.
Except in the air. He's good at approaching from the air.
Chances are, you wouldn't be in a vulnerable spot in the air unless your opponent did something to you. From there, you HAVE to be defensive. ALL of these are DEFENSIVE options. These don't set up anything, they involve keeping your enemy at bay while safely recovering. Klawing wouldn't help.
If you're talking about aerial approach, fortress maneuvering wtf, firebreath is risky, Klawing is viable, bombing is risky, tilts don't come until you hit the ground. If you ask me, a risky approach is not a great approach at all.
Fortress maneuvering is quite important against many foes, because it lets Bowser maximize his airspeed maneuverability. It is mainly useless against foes who are very quick on the ground. Against everyone else, you can Fortress away, because while you are bouncing on the ground recovering,
you retain momentum.
Firebreath is only risky if your opponent is in the wrong spot. It is one of the most consistent attacks Bowser has, thanks to huge range and great mechanical priority.
Bombing is only risky if you use it proactively, to try and "catch" an opponent off guard. If your opponent has already tripped his rhythm, it's a guaranteed hit.
Managing the risk in Bowser's attacks is all about knowing when and how to use them. He has a small handful of moves that are crapshoots - The forward Smash, a blind Bowser Bomb. The risk inherent in the rest of them is whether the Bowser player knows what he is doing.
Don't take it the wrong way, but this last comment is very misleading.
First, I want to apologize if you thought I was insulting you.
Second, did you know that in every game Bowser has appeared in, he has jumpred at, or flown at the players in some way? He's never used much of an active "defense" either. He simply wailed on you, and it was up to you to survive it.
Now you can argue that he lost all those games...
But in every one, Bowser was a pretty serious challenge to beat. (and he had a pretty repetitive attack style.
When koopas start jumping around, it's dangerous. That is historic. It's all a matter of how you use your jumps.
Here in Smash Brothers, I refuse to let the enemy decide all the time how the confrontation will occur. I will not only react to his actions. There are times when the enemy is simply faster than me, and I have no choice but to allow him to dictate how some of combat will go; even then I will endeavor to control the engagement any way I can.
You've talked about a lot of good strategies. Baiting your opponent, punishing mistakes; these ARE things that all players should do. I think your technique with Bowser is probably effective if you are relying on countering the enemy powerfully, and not so much Rolling and Blocking. Reversing and threatening are mindgames, and emphasize good timing. It's very similar to what I suggest...
But we have a major logical disagreement on one point.
I say, Bowser needs to attack head-on whenever this is statistically possible. The core of aggression; taking the fight to the enemy. This lets you decide how the attack will occur, and maximizes your options. It forces your opponent to react. It keeps them off balance. And it is an advantage you hand to your enemy every time you stand by and let them make the attack.
And with most characters, this is Universal Wisdom. MOST characters are aggressive.
Metaphorically, statistically, mechanically, Bowser is not at his best when defensive.
He is better off aggressive. Even in his better defensive moves, he attacks.
At this point, it's enough to say "I think I am right" and let people try the difference and decide themselves.
As for the Timing-Oriented Offense;
Good timing is necessity to win with Bowser. Offense is the best strategy to win with Bowser. So logically, Timing-Oriented offense is the best approach.
Personally, I have always prescribed to an Aerial style that is a bit more complex than simply fighting with good timing; but good timing is by necessity an absolute part of it, completely inseperable without ruining Bowser's game regardless of the strategy, and not every character has this penalty.
If your response to this explanation of Timing-oriented Offense is "You must rely on timing, because that is defensive play", I answer:
Jumping at an enemy and making an attack is not defending. Timing this attack properly, finding an opening, choosing the right move, is simply good offense.
And if your response is "Every character has to time his attacks", my reply is:
Not every character is wide open when they miss.
And if your response is "He is wide open, because he should be defending", my reply is:
You are wide open, because you are not using the attack right. You messed up the timing.
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as silly as it seems, bowser plays a bit like yoshi, although yoshi has a bit more speed and bowser more weight, they follow many of the same stratagies. bowser seems to be, like was said, careful with offense, much like yoshi is. yet, can pul off a great defensive game. bowser can be either depending on how you wish to play him and what character you are facing. id like to say that, like a tank, he has powerfull offensive and defensive tactics, but in many cases, only one is the best route to go
I agree with most of this and there's no point in nitpicking the differences between Yoshi and Bowser. Bowser can play a defensive-style counter and threat game. Or he can play offense-style. But a good Bowser will do both at different times in the match.
A good Bowser will be aggressive when he is healthy, pressuring the enemy with attacks. Then when his damage gets high, he will kite, dragging up his enemies' damage with fire and ticks from Whirling Fort, swipes etc before hunting a KO using a quicker attack. The natural shift of Offense-to-Defense dependent on health is a good plan, and there's few enemies that Bowser is always forced to react against.
There's only a few foes that I treat defensive in particular.
Against other characters, he should be making attacks until he gets weak and then kite.
Among the foes that I advocate a full "Confuse, counter, kite" defensive play style:
Yoshi, Captain Falcon -
Both just too fast to dominate the attack pattern, with solid Ground-To-Air games. Interrupt with Firebreath and Whirling Fortress. Hit with tilts and stay on your toes, so to speak... If stuck in air, try to catch with Bowser Bombs by floating in as if you plan to attack, then stopping just before and letting fly onto your enemy's counterattack whiff. Crouch cancel/tilt and bomb at medium percents and avoid directly jumping at. If you find yourself above and beside, Firebreath right away or you will eat a natural counter. (Up+B)
Jigglypuff -
Such a light enemy, with terrible footspeed but too quick in the air to manage. Burn it, then swat it. Turtle until you get that KO, and roll to avoid Rest - your body is big, so it's easy for Jigs to land.
Among enemies that he should play a "Stick and Move" equal mix of offense and defense:
Sonic - Too too too fast. If you let him dictate the fight, however, he will beat you silly. Sonic has a lot of commitance moves. You can break up his aggression by coming at HIM for a change, but you absolutely must NOT get predictable. Alternate between good reactions and fast attacks!
Lucas - This kid is FLOATY up there and really good against the air. I recommend getting up there just to land nearby and attack suddenly from the ground instead. When he comes up after you, Bomb him. This will get you grounded in a hurry so you can roll around and fight back. Don't abuse your Breath, or he will absorb it. But use it on occasion, in short bursts, to disrupt him and hopefully make him try for an absorb later on (and get owned)
G&W - He's really fast in the air. But G&W's Air-to-Ground game is SO good, you want to jump just to force Air-air confrontations. You can not even consistently Shellspike his aerial Down+A, he's got a move a lot like Link's Sword pogo. Remember, he is light! Keep the firebreath coming, then tap him one and he's gone- and any time he jumps at you, get up there with him and fight his airspeed with yours!
Marth - His reach is really a hassle and it makes attacking tricky, not to mention his auto counter. But it is possible to heckle him with air firebreath, and occasionally land some chips from the sky once he gets wary of Breath. In addition, he is mildly susceptible to plain ole' ground attacks. Since he gets best damage when tipping an enemy, keeping on him will mess with his accuracy and reduce his damage and Knockback. So, alternate smartly. Try running at him, and short-hopping into a Down+A - or Neutral A if he hops back a lot. To make him come to you, use the Fire breath, and keep it balanced.
DK - The most heavy contender with good Airspeed is Mario's older nemesis. It's not enough to just throw your weight around and attack; the stats are no longer in your absolute favor. DK doesn't suffer from bad attack lag like Bowser, he's got OK air defense, and he weighs almost as much. The combination of airspeed and weight makes DK the boxing match of the century. Go for Klaws and Firebreath a metric ton - Breath is one of your core advantages against DK, because he's a melee kinda guy. He will attack you. Counter him. And attack him back, to force him to defend too.
). Take MK for example. He can be very dangerous to Bowser and once he gets in a hit, he makes you regret your size. However, Bowser's great defensive game can make the approach difficult for MK. If neither player wants to make the approach, Bowser can force MK to start doing so with his approach options listed above, especially SH flame and ftilt.
