Bowser Safety

[anaglyphix]

I'll keep this brief. I have 2 questions:
1. What can bowser do that's safe on shield? I heard nair somewhere, but that seems crazy to me.
2. What are the best ways for bowser to get back to stage after getting knocked up? Dair is obviously the best option, but what else is there?

 

[CreamyFatone]

1. Jab, d-tilt, spaced fair (sometimes)
2. Usually you go for ledge, you can speed that up with bomb, and you want to mix that up with dair.

You always want to be aware of the meta that is wait for the Bowser to land.

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

Even if all hits of NAir connect, you will still be at a decent disadvantage. It's a gutsy move/cross-up, and people that play Bowser tend to like gutsy options, so YMMV. DTilt is a block string, but it won't be safe against some of our worse MUs, like Sheik. YOLO FAir will just get you punished while you're still in the air or while you are trying to fast fall the move to shave off frames.

1. Jab 1 is our safest move on block, though you still want to avoid hitting a shield with it anyway. Obviously, if they're scared enough to shield, it's a better idea to try grabbing. If they're trying to bait an approach, then you're probably better off just standing around and being intimidating. Throwing out bursts of Fire or fully spaced FTilt/DTilt is a valid option against slow characters or characters with slow-ish punish options

2. Eh, if you've saved double jump, you can usually just escape to the ledge or avoid jank follow-ups completely. In most cases it's fine as long as you avoid habitual instant double jumping, ADing into the ground, or whiffing your YOLO Bomb. Our fast fall isn't completely bad, so use it. Bowser's aerials are not safe to throw out unless you know your opponent is over aggressive, and even then characters like Yoshi, Marcina, RosaLuma, etc will just beat our options out.

This is not accounting for conditioning your opponent, which a few of our members enjoy doing when switching DAir for Bomb.

 

[Big Sean]

Everything everyone said above is smart. When landing make sure to use all the options everyone has with buffered moves. You should be buffering rolls, spot dodges, jabs. You should be double jumping at the last moment. You should also try landing with Klaw. You should also try landing into a buffered fortress. Occasionally even nair to the ground. If you over dair and convince your opponent to shield, do super low bowser bombs that they can't react to. It doesn't matter really that no option is completely safe, it just matters that you mix it up enough for people to be scared to punish you.

 

[atticusfinch7]

Landing with fire breath is a great option, especially if you know your opponent wants to try and dash grab/ dash attack you upon landing

 

[bushaheen]

d-tilt and single jab (then maybe roll or delay your other jab to catch their grab attempt) and retreating fair are safe on shield. if your having lost of trouble vs shield then go for pivot grabs as it has ridiculous range. as for landing dont be afraid to use fair and dair to land this will either make your opponent shield or wait for you to land then punish. if they shield then use klaw or even bowser bomb (which btw works more than it should since people arent used to react to it and roll) or you can land and immediately roll since they are waiting for you to attack. if they for you to land then punish you can go near the ground and jump before you land you also can land and immediately jab or roll and you also can go to the ledge (or maybe go to a platform to mix up your landing)

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

I think, not sure, that ftilt, considering its damage, is sage on shield too. It should deal enough shieldstun if spaced right to avoid a punish.

 

[Cronoc]

I think, not sure, that ftilt, considering its damage, is sage on shield too. It should deal enough shieldstun if spaced right to avoid a punish.

A well-spaced ftilt is safe on shield against most characters, but not on whiff, which makes it a risky thing to throw out at the edge of its range.

Regarding jabs - if Bowser is in shield grab range it's not safe. And dtilt can be safe because of pushback on shield, but it doesn't have enough pushback to force a character that's just gotten up off the ledge into a tumble like a Little Mac fsmash can, so using dtilt at close range near the edge of the stage or platform will make it unsafe because of not pushing the other character far away enough. There isn't anything Bowser has that is safe in the way some high tiers' tools are.

 

[GerudoKong]

Bowser is wonky in the sense that he doesn't have a lot that is safe on shield (which is why you need to avoid being predictable) but many moves that are usually safe on shield aren't against Bowser.

 

[RidlR]

Bowser is wonky in the sense that he doesn't have a lot that is safe on shield (which is why you need to avoid being predictable) but many moves that are usually safe on shield aren't against Bowser.

GerudoKong, could you go into detail about this? What kinds of moves are not safe against Bowser's shield that are different compared to other characters' shields?

 

[Grizzlpaw]

I think he's talking about bowser's Oos game.

I don't know much about it myself, but I do know that Fortress Oos is a good option. Has been since forever.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Besides Fortress, there's a few other gameplay factors with Bowser that aid in his shieldplay. His size, in terms of height and width, give opponents a lot of trouble getting behind him (cross ups) when attacking. Keeping the opponent in front of you allows for shieldgrab, which is his second fastest and much deadlier OoS option for wracking up damage and even killing. Furthermore, Bowser's grabs are much larger hitboxes than most of the cast. There are about ten characters with a shieldgrab (standing grab) that reaches farther than Bowser's, and every one is a tether grab that takes much longer to come out. Bowser's frame 9 grab is slower than the average 6 or 7, but the difference in frames is well made up for in range, as well as the threat that Bowser poses when he does grab somebody. Opponents need to make more of an effort to space if they're not crossing up. And cross ups are dealt with via fortress.

As for Bowser's move safety, the actual frame data pegs him at about an average case. Most moves on the ground allow for enough time that the opponent can put down shield and dash grab, his jab 1 poke is safe enough in frames and long range enough that it can only be shieldgrabbed by an opponent that anticipated it. Falling with aerials is terrible on block, but at least they push opponents far enough that non tethered shieldgrabs miss if you make an effort to space. You can compare moves to other characters here, but the numbers only paint a picture based in literal frame data, not in practicality.