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The old thread has a lot of good info but was horribly organised. So this time, I'll make sure to write up a short summary of what we discuss and add it to the front page. Matchup numbers too, if we want.
I'd prefer to start the discussion on Fox, and go down the tier list but if people want to talk about a character in particular next we can do that.
So come in, ask any questions and give your advice. Don't be afraid to contribute!
If we decide to add matchup percentages then I'll add that to the OP later.
Our match up thread has very little about Fox, surprisingly. The fox guide has a decent chunk that's got some solid information, and it's worth a read (wall of text).
Cunning Kitsune's summary of the Match up
As a character who occupies one of the lowest positions in the tier list and
who is seriously lacking in both speed and a truly effective, efficient ap-
proach, Bowser at first may not elicit much of a response from you, a player of
the top-tier Fox. However, what this one match-up may teach you is that while
having confidence in your character is one key to your battlefield success,
being overly confident to the point of arrogance can often lead to your defeat
in an otherwise excellent match-up for you. Granted, Bowser does lack in speed,
evasion, and combo options, but he does have more than a few select tools
against Fox, especially an extremely powerful out-of-shield and counter game
courtesy of his up-B Fortress and a very potent edge-guarding game thanks to
his down- and forward-tilts (and even a well-timed forward-smash); both of
these are the staples of Bowser's entire game plan and indeed his only truly
effective options against you. As such, you should adjust your style, wavering
between aggression and defensive blaster-luring and punishing, according to
your opponent's style, which unless he is provoked should consist mainly of
defensive play with more aggression near the edge for edge-guarding purposes.
Most of all, however, do not allow yourself to become overly confident and
simply chalk this match up to an auto-win for your top-tier; you will quickly
find as you grow in experience that an attitude such as this will lead to
sloppy play on your part and many losses in match-ups which you truly should
have won. Confidence is a strong asset, but arrogance is far less so.
The ground game against Bowser can be trickier than you may at first be willing
to believe. Thanks to his out-of-shield up-B and the unique properties of the
Fortress itself (most notably invincibility on frames 1-4), Bowser is perhaps
the only character who truly has an answer to your approach; indeed, with good
timing on your opponent's part, you may find that a good portion of your aerial
lead-ins to shines on Bowser's shield are outpaced by the out-of-shield For-
tress (keep in mind that your shine only grants you invincibility on its first
frame; here again, the Fortress outclasses you). As a result, even "perfect"
shuffles into shines on your part can lead to counters on your approach by
simple out-of-shield Fortresses. If you find that you cannot take control via
your signature approaches, switch gears to a more defensive, blaster-luring
style; although Bowser has a potent answer to your aggressive strategies, he
has little if anything to offer as a counter to your own defensive projectile
luring and countering other than a flimsy advance on his part consisting of
shuffled forward-aerials. You should examine your opponent over time and see if
you can predict or read his approach in response to your blaster fire, that is,
whether he runs up and stops with a shield to lure out an aerial, whether he
comes straight in with a forward-aerial attempt each time, and so on. Adjust
your spacing with reverse wavedashes and dash-dancing, returning fire with your
shuffled aerials and jump-canceled grabs; your classic up-throw to up-aerials
routine is still effective here (especially given your opponent's size and his
reliance on shields), although Bowser can double-jump or DI to prevent being
hit by too many up-aerials. Regardless, it is still an easy and efficient way
of building damage on Bowser as well as a good means of prepping for a vertical
kill.
Successful mindgames are also key to Bowser's success over you. Watch for
delayed aerials from Bowser's descents as well as his innovative Koopa Klaw
aerial grab, an especially potent and disorienting tool of Bowser's against
inexperienced Foxes. You should not stay in one place shielding in anticipation
of a simple aerial from Bowser due to this; a throw from the Klaw can function
as either a set-up or as a kill mechanism in and of itself when combined
with poor DI. Even shielding on platforms above Bowser is risky; unless you can
foresee the Klaw (which you should), you will be grabbed from your perch and
put into Bowser's control. As well, take a moment to think if you find yourself
pressed against the edge; one of Bowser's most potent means of putting you in a
disadvantageous position is reading one of your jumps with a full-jump forward-
aerial, so be particularly cautious when choosing your method of escape.
In addition, seasoned Bowser players will make use of a rather surprising mind-
game involving his down-throw; because many players will assume from the rather
sluggish animation of the throw that they can tech away and escape any tech
reads in time, more crafty opponents will anticipate this thought process and
immediately run towards that position, ready with another grab or a dash
attack. Still another trick involves waiting for your second jump and punishing
with a well-timed up-aerial. Finally, Bowser possesses a unique ability of his
very own called flame-canceling. Although not possible in all versions of
Melee, flame-canceling allows the dragon turtle to start his neutral-B fire
breath without the usual lengthy start-up animation; he can use this to defend
himself as he nears the ground, to gain a foothold on the stage out of a ledge
hop, and so on. Keep your wits about you at all times, and be ready for this
and other tricks.
Thankfully, your shine comboes work quite well on Bowser thanks to his trac-
tion. However, you should be aware that the shine's stun time on an aerial
opponent is less than on a grounded opponent; as such, down-aerials and not
neutral-aerials should be your lead-ins for shine comboes against Bowser, who
can and will Fortress out of your "comboes" if he is hit with an aerial shine
from a neutral-aerial. Link a few drill shine reps to tack on a good deal of
damage and to prep for a lethal up-smash or up-aerials via a grab, adjusting
your wavedash length as needed. If you can connect with a shine or jab and out-
pace the Fortress' activation, up-smashes and grabs should be your top prior-
ity, not necessarily extended shine comboes (unless you can lead into grabs and
up-smashes from them, of course). Simple and effective is the name of the game
against Bowser, who likewise possesses a simple and effective answer to your
approach in his up-B. Of course, take care not to forget entirely about your
neutral-aerial; indeed, if your enemy insists upon survival DI'ing this aerial,
you can often chain it into itself or an up-aerial, as percentage dictates.
The edge game with Bowser is where you need to be especially careful; indeed,
other than forward- and up-aerial follow-ups from a Fortress launcher, the
vast majority of Bowser's kills on Fox will come at the edge, often stemming
from some degree of prediction on your opponent's part (and thus predictability
on yours). For example, if Bowser grabs and down-throws you, he will expect you
to tech away (for the most part) and follow in that direction for another grab;
if this next grab gets you off-stage, you have just handed control of the match
entirely to your opponent until you can regain the stage. As always, vary your
recovery as needed among your suite of options, including angled Firefoxes
(care should be taken with these due to the range on Bowser's forward- and
down-tilts; watch your entry angles in relation to Bowser and compensate),
shortened Illusions, and the occasional head-on Illusion or Firefox to throw
off your foe. If you are simply thrown off-stage at lower percents, take care
not to use your recovery choice at the same time or at the same position con-
sistently; a good Bowser will follow you off-stage and punish your moment of
immobility with a well-placed forward-aerial and then Fortress back to the
ledge, leading either to your immediate death or your imminent death via edge-
guarding. Be wary as well of Bowser's below-100 edge attack, which packs a
surprising amount of speed and could very well knock you off your feet long
enough for your opponent to gain a foothold on-stage (or even knock you off-
stage, should you be positioned just so). The last thing that you want to do is
to hand your opponent easy low-percent kills. Bowser does have the ability to
go blow-for-blow with you, especially horizontally speaking with good DI, so a
war of attrition is not a good route against the bottom-tier turtle. As a
result, you cannot permit low-percent deaths on your part; focus on finishing
Bowser as early as you can with vertical kills, and focus play at the center of
the stage as much as you can.
Of course, you have your own options should you get Bowser off-stage in search
of a horizontal kill. Ledge-dropped back-aerials are good choices to combat
Bowser's recovery, but you must be careful with your spacing as the Fortress
possesses a good deal of priority, even in the face of your back-aerials.
Botched attempts to sweet-spot can be punished with a down-, forward-, or even
an up-smash. If you wish to shine-spike Bowser for the quick one-hit kill, do
so with invincibility frames from the ledge as you will rarely if ever be able
to shine through the high-priority Fortress and its large hitbox when com-
pletely off-stage. Steal the required invincibility frames from the ledge with
a Firefox stall and then shine through your opponent's recovery as he nears the
edge. Simply stalling completely through the recovery is also an option should
you note a tendency to go for the edge out of mindless instinct.
Due to Bowser's need for consistent off-stage kills in this match-up, his con-
troller may opt to take you to a smaller stage, such as Yoshi's Story (despite
its low ceiling) or Fountain of Dreams, or he may also choose from the usual
contingent of high-ceiling stages, Dream Land 64 and Kongo Jungle 64. Yoshi's
Story is a particularly interesting pick for Bowser as the platforms are placed
just so as to allow Bowser to jump from the edge and onto one of the platforms
and fall through with a startlingly quick forward-aerial. The close edges also
allow the turtle to navigate around the landscape with his Fortress in a rather
fluid fashion; for example, after an out-of-shield Fortress against your ap-
proach, Bowser can retreat towards a ledge, grab onto it out of the up-B, and
(if below 100%) come up with his fast ledge attack. As always, you should aim
for quick vertical kills, thus making your lead counter-stage Corneria, the
structure of which is particularly devastating to Bowser's off-stage-oriented
gameplay. Larger fields such as Final Destination and Pokemon Stadium can also
work to your advantage (again by diminishing Bowser's pivotal edge game).
And my own little bit about it.
To start with, you're forced to play aggressively. You've got to stick fairly close to Fox, and spending a lot of time in shield really doesn't help you. While it's possible to consistently Up B fox out of pillaring pressure, it's not easy. Fox has a lot of mix ups. You have to pay attention to whether they do early or late nairs while pillaring, and they can easily switch nair timing, or even grab. If you do hit them out of it, you do get a decent amount of damage, but you can't follow up that hit. You shouldn't be shielding and playing defensively, unless you need to.
You're going to want to be moving around a lot, if you're just short hop fairing constantly you're going to get baited a lot. Fox can easily just run away if he sees you doing it and punish after, unless he's already commited to something. Try and space yourself so you're always a little more than fox's short hop nair away. Your safest baiting method is wavedash back > f tilt, I use it a lot. In terms of approach you'll mainly be using fair and wavedashed ftilt. Dash attack is also pretty good, if risky. If it hits, it pops fox up at a nice knockback, you can easily follow up with an aerial, a grab etc.
In terms of combos, you're pretty limited, although Fox is definetely one of the easier characters for Bowser to combo. At low percents, Koopa Klaw (Side B) comboes into itself, and is easily followed up with another aerial. Other than that, most of your comboing will come from techchases and juggling.
I often downthrow, and immediately run in their direction. A lot of Foxes assume that if they tech away you can't catch them, but if you predict the tech away you can easily get the regrab.
You can also upthrow them, which at low percents can be regrabbed (I believe), or you could throw them onto a platform. At higher percents it can lead to juggles.
If you throw onto a platform, I usually jump up to the platform so I'm position right above the middle of it and if I see a techroll I'll follow the roll and Koopa Klaw. Koopa Klaw is super good against fox, the upthrow of it sets Fox up perfectly for combos, and the backthrow is horrendously powerful, and usually will get Fox off the stage. If the fox doesn't tech I just wait on the platform and shield as soon as I see them do something. If it's get up attack, just sheild it and upb or grab, otherwise you can just shorthop out of sheild and Koopa Klaw whatever else they do.
In terms of juggling, you have a few options. Grabs and Koopa Klaws set them up nicely, dash attack, utilt and upair are all great ways of continuing it. Up air is surprisingly slow, and a lot of Foxes in the air will assume they're safe if you try to up air, or act super early. Uptilt is nice and quick, and you can feign an upair and just land and uptilt. Just play smart with those moves and learn how to use them.
Fox also has plenty of combos. Shines lead to up smashes and grabs. Bowser gets juggled pretty badly by Fox, he's a fat target for that upair. Make good use of that airdodge and save your jump, don't waste it unless it's guaranteed to get you out of the juggle. Bowser's Nair is his best GTFO move and will save you from a few juggles and general combos. Fox can quite easily just nair Bowser across the stage. As soon as Fox starts to get a hit on you you immediately need to switch your attention to getting out of his combo than trying to retaliate.
Fox has a fairly easy job edgeguarding Bowser. You don't ever want to go low, Fox can easily ledgestall and shine you. Bowser's aerial Up B has surprisingly good priority, and isn't the easiest thing to hit. Getting back to the stage is a case of mixing up your options. You can up B onto the stage (the landing lag isn't horrendous), and your airdodge (while being pretty bad) does increase your options. If you're high above the stage you can down B to the ledge, but it's a pretty risky choice.
Your ledgegame is very different, depending on your %. Below 100 your get up attack is really good, but it's not unpunishable. Abuse it. You can also ledgehop fair, ledge waveland into ftilt, sheild or just run after.
Once you hit 100%, things get quite bad. All your ledge options are horrendously slow, practically forcing you to use a ledgehop or waveland. These both postion you in very similar places, and any Fox shouldn't have too much trouble punishing you afterwards. Just try to be unpredictable, and don't always ledgehop.
Oh, ledgehopped Koopa Klaw is pretty hot, if Fox always just shields by the edge to avoid your get up attack or whatever, ledgehop and grab him. And just throw him back, and he should die haha.
Bowser has a good edgeguard game against Fox.
Position yourself by the edge, and facing it.
If Fox is below the stage without a jump, just firebreath. As long as he doesn't land on the stage, he can't di onto it and just gets caught in the fire. As soon as it hits him, stop firebreathing. This put's fox in a position where his only option is to up B straight up. if he doesn't sweetspot you can Fsmash him (lol), or a simple angled down ftilt will hit him, as long as you time it right.
Fox's side B is silly. If he goes directly at you, or tried to sweetspot it, just angle ftilt downwards. As long as you have a decent reaction time, you should be able to hit him. If he goes above the stage, you can easily follow it and either catch him out of it with Koopa Klaw and throw him back off, or just fair him.
If Fox uses up B near the stage, just go out and fair him. Bowser can go decently far off the stage and still return, so if Fox tried to up B near the stage he should be dead.
I can't be bothered explaining every scenario haha, this is way too long. But basically clever use of angled down ftilt, firebreath, dsmash, fair and ledgehop bair all should make light work of a recovering Fox. Use the slow fortresshog if you need to get the edge quickly (although it won't be beating Fox's side B any day, and if Fox beats you to the ledge you die).
Random tidbits, Dsmash is kinda cute in this match up, if you hit fox it sets him up Perfectly for Koopa Klaw, uptilt etc. But if you miss, you get punished pretty badly.
Nair is your GTFO move, use it.
Dash Grabs da bess.
In terms of stages, high ceilings are always good. Fox will be getting a lot of vertical kills and a few edgeguards, whilst you should mostly be getting horizontal kills from edgeguards, and the occasional vertical kill. You need platforms, FD is horrible for Bowser Vs. Fox. I think stages in this match up is a personal preference, and depends on the kind of fox you're playing.
Having room to move around helps Bowser a lot, you need to be constantly positioning yourself and having space to retreat to and set the spacing to neutral is a big advantage.
However, if the fox is playing super campy that space really profits him a lot more than you.
Personally, I'd favour them in this order:
Dreamland, Fod, Battlefield, Yoshi's, Pokemon Stadium, Final Destination.
(The Uk has a pretty conservative stagelist.)
Super Wall of Text, sorry about that. If I had to give a match up percentage I'd say 80:20. Fox has a lot of tools against Bowser, but Bowser has his own tricks and a very good edgeguard game which severely punishes any mistakes made by Fox.
