Bowser is now competitive material?

[Mr. Bones]

One of the reasons I was using firebreath so much is because we don't have too many options on duckhunt, and thats one of the ways we can actually get in on him. A good duckhunt is quite rough on bowser...

...I think that as bowser your gonna have to do some risky things like that to get back down sometimes, since we are so limited when we are in the air.

We fire is great against DHD, but we can still perfect shield rush them and jab the can and clay pidgeon.

As far as Dairing/Bombing down, that's way too much risk unless your opponent isn't paying attention or trying to jump into the air after you. If they're waiting on the ground, the only time to Dair would be after significant hitstun so that you get the slow-motion Dair to the ledge. Also Bomb to the edge. Slow motion Dair after hitstun has the same killing power as the regular one.

Other than that^ I never use those moves to land on solid ground. Super punishable. You're right about using Fire though. It's great for catching landings, but if people are shielding right under me you can catch them with aerial Side-B. Or you can use Side-b to cancel your landing lag and do something else after you land.

As far as the neutral game goes, Jabs and Fire are positively gravy. Bowser's pivot grab range is golden too.

 

[MrEh]

Bowser's pivot grab is one of the most atrociously good pivot grabs I've ever seen.

 

[Mr. Bones]

Bowser's pivot grab is one of the most atrociously good pivot grabs I've ever seen.

Absolutely. It's odd. When someone uses a burst-movement attack, they appear to be grabbed from a greater distance away when pivot grabbing them. Stationary characters seemed to be grabbed more realistically(but still a great distance!) by it. He's really reaching out and touching you. >_> Inappropriately.

 

[Raiden mk-II]

Now if I can master pivot grab, my Bowser game should improve exponentially. I got better at my aerial game and grapple game and it's given me so many more tools to fight different characters with different player playstyles.

 

[Mr. Bones]

Now if I can master pivot grab, my Bowser game should improve exponentially. I got better at my aerial game and grapple game and it's given me so many more tools to fight different characters with different player playstyles.

What do you have your Grab mapped to? I have it on Y(the jump button that I don't use). It makes it much easier for me. Basically run, grab button, input opposite direction.

 

[Raiden mk-II]

What do you have your Grab mapped to? I have it on Y(the jump button that I don't use). It makes it much easier for me. Basically run, grab button, input opposite direction.

I have all my controls on default, grabbing with L button. I got so used to the default controls.

 

[Mr. Bones]

I have all my controls on default, grabbing with L button. I got so used to the default controls.

nuuu. Y is sooooo good for grab though. Get un-used to it. XD I have X jump, Y Grab. A attack, B Special.

Unless you jump with Y. Then use X to grab. lol

 

[MrEh]

I usually set my grab button to something other than Z. Usually X or Y. It's more responsive and my thumb was always faster then my trigger finger anyway. (which is ALWAYS on shield)

 

[B!squick]

I use default controls. I use to always have tap jump turned off, but too much 3DS has conditioned me to it. After trying jumping with a button again recently it felt really off putting.

I have no problem pivot grabbing with Z though. Does anyone else have a pivot grab range comparable to Bowser? I expected Pac-Man's to be god like in comparison, but I guess because it acts like a slow tether, extending the initial grabbox doesn't do much, if anything, and the end range seems be exactly the same.

Ah well. Pac-Man still has the best charge attack in the game.

 

[Jerodak]

Bowser deserves to have the largest thetherless pivot range in my opinion. It adds to his arsenal of punish tools, and I love using it to scoop up anyone trying to use spaced attacks. The only thing that bothers me is when I grab them from far away and it just causes me to trade with an active hitbox, maybe I'm spacing poorly or perhaps the hitbox stays active while being pulled in for some reason?

 

[MrEh]

DK has a good pivot grab range. Then again, it's surprising that Bowser has longer grab range then DK. I mean come on, he's a friggin ape with 5 foot arms.

 

[B!squick]

Yeah, but DK doesn't have magic powers that manifest themselves as the plot calls for.

 

[Kooky Koopa]

Just so my post isn't OT: Yes I think Bowser is definitely competitive material, after participating in a few tournaments myself. His movement speed buff has helped him remarkably as have the handful of new mechanics in Smash 4. He may still find some match ups developing against his favour like Megaman or Diddy Kong (though who doesn't have a hard time vs the monkey) but he is far more competitive material with the removal of infinite grabs alone. I think if that was patched out in Brawl, it would have bumped Bowser up a tiny bit in and of itself.

On what's being discussed, I've never tried to use pivot grab as popular as it seems here. I just think during high pressure games there is just too much room to mess it up and leave yourself vulnerable. I've tried it in training and I guess Bowser still has some of his magic from previous games as the range is absolutely absurd! But still, a bit of hit or miss in practice in my opinion, I just go straight for normal grabs if I'm going to grab at all.

Slightly unrelated, but a quick question to you all. I got into a brief talk on another site with another Smasher, and they thought Bowser's grab release follow ups may be patched out cause they claimed, in their own words, "It's pretty BS". What are your thoughts on this? I think since if the opponent sees it coming it can be spot dodged or blocked it won't, and Dorf has his side-b follow ups but food for thought. I'd hate to see it go as I think it's a fairly nice asset in Bowser's toolkit without being near guaranteed like Ness's f-air follow ups.

 

[MrEh]

Bowser doesn't have any grab releases in this game. :/

 

[Kooky Koopa]

Bowser doesn't have any grab releases in this game. :/

I meant when he pummels an opponent, releases them on the ground and can follow up with a jab, f-tilt or d-tilt. I thought it was called grab-release but apparently not. That is what I was referring to though. Still, I liked it a lot in Brawl and would love for it to remain an asset of Bowser's toolkit.

 

[MrEh]

That's what a grab release is yes, but only if it's guaranteed.

None of those are guaranteed in this game. All of Bowser's grab releases are gone.

 

[Kooky Koopa]

That's what a grab release is yes, but only if it's guaranteed.

None of those are guaranteed in this game. All of Bowser's grab releases are gone.

Ah, understood. Thanks for the heads up. I thought the general term was just grab-release, I didn't know it was required to be guaranteed. Cheers MrEh, that's a bit of reassurance for me.

 

[Anragon]

I miss the beautiful Grab release Follow-ups list there was on the Brawl bowser board. RIP

 

[MrEh]

We can still go for Grab Release Bombs anyway, because we're a bunch of frauds.

 

[Anragon]

One does not simply only shield to punish Bowser.