Bowser Hero to 0 In No Time Flat

[JoeDaBandito]

Do you guys agree? Ive been seeing less bowser players and just want to know if you all think he is as good as you used to think/

 

[HakuryuVision]

I see enough Bowser players, and him being better than in brawl/melee is a fact.
He feels more viable and fun to use.

...or am i misunderstanding your question?

 

[Zigsta]

People are slowly realizing that while he's better than in previous games, his weaknesses are still largely intact. Landing is tough for him, and lower level Bowsers get easily crushed by projectile spam.

I've been saying this for a while now: Each passing month, there will be less and less Bowser mains. People will jump to an easier, less frustrating character. He's not easy to pick up and requires a different mentality to play him. A lot of people jumped on the Bowser bandwagon after Comic-Con, and they're progressively getting more and more exposed.

Likewise, nothing earthshattering had been discovered in Bowser's metagame yet, and there hadn't been a real steady, breakout Bowser who places high in tournaments on a regular basis. The more Bowser mains play, though, the more we'll all be getting more and more used to janky MUs. It also honestly depends on how many Sheiks one of us fights in bracket too.

 

[PokÉmblem]

Pretty much, he's like 42 on the eventhubs tier list. http://www.eventhubs.com/tiers/ssb4/
I remember when people thought he was Op lol.

 

[Cassius.]

eventhubs is a joke.

however, I will say that most of the people that play Bowser (I mean this in the sense that people who actually have been playing Bowser for years) got a feel for him during the expos and knew he wasn't going to be anything spectacular.

Sure, Bowser is "improved", but depending on who you ask, some people will say he's really no different in terms of viability than how he was in the previous game. Some of his tools are really annoying to use, or really begin to show their drawbacks when situations really count for them, since you actually have to wait your turn in order to punish certain moves in this game. The frame data is very finnicky.

I could go on, but Bowser was never great lol. He was just ridden by the hype train for far too long. The strength of media in our current age brings more casual players on board, and that accentuated the belief that Bowser was actually good. He's of the "large/heavyweight" and dare I say "grappler" archetype. It's rare that those kinds of characters are actually within bounds of an A or S tier in any game with a reasonable amount of characters in it.

 

[Volimutt]

People are just not willing to have the patience it takes to learn him "properly". Sure anyone can throw a lot of smash attacks and Bowser Bombs but to be able to put up with Diddys, Sheiks Luigis, Jiggs, Robins, Links, and the plethora of other characters who give Bowser a hard time and keep up, let alone win takes some skill and knowledge to do. It's not all "Oh Imma play Diddy and D-throw > U-air you to death." Or I'm Luigi and I'll just D-throw and spam my OP aerials."

 

[MrGame&Rock]

I got hyped for Bowser at Comic Con and have been using him since even Melee, so now that I have him, I think he really is really good in this game. Just, not when you blindly spam smashes. Sometimes I get trapped and muscle memory a fsmash when I dont want to, or dair, but when I play smart I win. Fair, Fire Breath, Flying Sham, Bair, Ftilt and Dtilt especially, UpB, Bowser has a lot of great options this game. Its just that Bowser has a lot of crap MUs against top tier characters, especially Rosaluma and Sheik, that keep him from truly shining. Nowadays I treat Bowser as one of my 2 mains, the other being Diddy, and bring him out against MUs I think I can win, like vs Shulk, or Lucario, or Dedede, or hell even Yoshi even though Bowser's at a disadvantage. The Bowser hype died because he has weaknesses and because of the short attention span of the internet, but I still think Bowser is a very solid character.

 

[XOSugar]

People are just not willing to have the patience it takes to learn him "properly". Sure anyone can throw a lot of smash attacks and Bowser Bombs but to be able to put up with Diddys, Sheiks Luigis, Jiggs, Robins, Links, and the plethora of other characters who give Bowser a hard time and keep up, let alone win takes some skill and knowledge to do. It's not all "Oh Imma play Diddy and D-throw > U-air you to death." Or I'm Luigi and I'll just D-throw and spam my OP aerials."

This. He is a counter character. You have to be patient and read. At least he doesn't get walled to **** by Jiggly like Ganondorf does.

Play defensively, and wall with F-tilt. Forward B to cancel landing lag into jab combo.

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

A lot of heavies have bad MUs that Bowser does well against. All the heavies are weak to the top tier picks, though. Bowser, especially for a heavy, given the number of MUs that don't suck for him, is looking pretty good. Definitely in the top half of the cast. However, top half doesn't cut it if you're playing to win. You can't rely on Bowser to carry you through MUs where you are simply outclassed by the tools your opponent has, especially if that opponent is already at your skill level or better than you.

That being said, the gap isn't as big as it was in Melee or Brawl, especially at this early junction where we can exploit the inexperienced meta and our new-found power in the Rage mechanic. The more people that rep Bowser, sticking with him, the better the chances are that we'll see a steady increase in his performance.

 

[Daxter]

Having chosen DK as my main, I thought I'd return to Bowser in a search for backup. He's actually much easier to handle now that I play another heavyweight! How similar is he to DK in that respect? Does he compliment DK's weaknesses in any way?

 

[Overswarm]

DK is better than bowser in every meaningful way.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

DK is better than bowser in every meaningful way.

um what.

 

[Hitman JT]

DK is better than bowser in every meaningful way.

Oh. Didn't know DK had better OoS options, a better punish game, and a better projectile. I'll keep that in mind.

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

Oh. Didn't know DK had better OoS options, a better punish game, and a better projectile. I'll keep that in mind.

With custom moves. DK customs are god-like.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

With custom moves. DK customs are god-like.

even then, Bowser has better shield pressure, is heavier, has some great pokes that DK lacks, has a projectile, has a command grab, and with customs can ****ing waveslash. Besides what are you doing going into a Bowser thread to talk **** about him? Plus customs arent legal yet, as much as Id like to see that happen

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

Bowser's waveslash has nothing on how amazing DK's tornado up B special is. That thing is ridiculous in every sense of the word. Then there's the down b fire pillar... lawdy lawd.

Also, chill. I'm Bowser 4life, no matter what.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

Bowser's waveslash has nothing on how amazing DK's tornado up B special is. That thing is ridiculous in every sense of the word. Then there's the down b fire pillar... lawdy lawd.

Also, chill. I'm Bowser 4life, no matter what.

sorry. I just have something against people (not you at all, you were just clarifying) that go into a thread for one character and say **** randomly and bring up someone completely different. Comparing Bowser and DK with customs deserves its own thread with dignity, more than this that started out with just a mean-spirited comment

 

[Overswarm]

Oh. Didn't know DK had better OoS options, a better punish game, and a better projectile. I'll keep that in mind.

I said in every meaningful way. Bowser is absolutely atrocious in any seriously competitive venue because he can't land and is easily grabbed. Most of his worst matchups happen to be the most common characters in the game; he does well against a few characters like Rosalina, but for the most part he's a noob destroyer that runs into uphill battles really early on.

 

[Hitman JT]

I said in every meaningful way. Bowser is absolutely atrocious in any seriously competitive venue because he can't land and is easily grabbed. Most of his worst matchups happen to be the most common characters in the game; he does well against a few characters like Rosalina, but for the most part he's a noob destroyer that runs into uphill battles really early on.

And? DK has a lot of the same issues. I'd even argue that he's worse off for the sole fact that his OoS game is lacking.

 

[Zigsta]

OS you crazy.

 

[B!squick]

I don't know about you OS, but when I play Bowser, I'm too busy winning to get grabbed or have my landings punished. Do you even lift, bro?

 

[Overswarm]

I don't know about you OS, but when I play Bowser, I'm too busy winning to get grabbed or have my landings punished. Do you even lift, bro?

Bowser is really, really bad. Like REALLY bad. I play as Bowser in doubles but even then his weaknesses are still apparent -- this coming from someone who has yet to lose a doubles event and has dropped a grand total of one set. Bowser gets comboed to hell and back at low % and at high % has no landing options.

He has wonderful options for punishing people and it's a lot of fun waveslashing into f-smash combos over waveslash into u-tilt into hard read bairs... but it's all noob destroyer stuff. It's like playing as Ganon in Melee. He might look impressive and someone might be able to take him to the "next level" and do amazing looking stuff with him but he's still Ganon. Bowser's in the same boat. Nothing is safe on shield, most of the top tiers can overspace and still punish his landings, and edgeguarding bowser is trivial.

Bowser is really, really, really bad for competitive play in singles. If different characters were better Bowser might stand a chance. I'll take DK with wind up+b and stubborn headbutt over a Bowser any day for singles.

I love Bowser as a character, I tried. He doesn't work. There are just way too many superior characters that are way too commonly used to consider Bowser as an option.

 

[Zigsta]

Bowser won't ever be winning a large tournament, but he's far from being bad. I think the comparison to Melee Ganon is solid though.

 

[Overswarm]

Characters are basically "viable" or "not viable". Bowser is in the "not viable" category, you don't really get bonus points for losing by less.

 

[Zigsta]

Characters are basically "viable" or "not viable". Bowser is in the "not viable" category, you don't really get bonus points for losing by less.

And there's a big difference in the terms "not viable" and "bad." The former can mean maybe top 10, but not winning a major. The latter means top half or bust.

 

[MagiusNecros]

The more not viable Bowser is the better. Because if you see a Bowser, most cases the player is probably gonna kick your ass if you give Bowser the chance. There is always some thrill I think when you see a low tier character pop up in a large tournament and actually perform well. Bowser may not be as viable as Sheik or Combo heavy cheesecakes but he isn't bad.

 

[XOSugar]

The more not viable Bowser is the better. Because if you see a Bowser, most cases the player is probably gonna kick your *** if you give Bowser the chance. There is always some thrill I think when you see a low tier character pop up in a large tournament and actually perform well. Bowser may not be as viable as Sheik or Combo heavy cheesecakes but he isn't bad.

This. Not top tier, but not bad is the best place to be in fighting games. Being an underdog (and not just in the game but in life) forces you to come up with alternative strategies.