Big thank you to the PMDT

[BronzeGreekGod]

So after playing a bunch of Smash4, I've concluded that P:M is a way better game in every way. The only thing smash4 has over P:M is the larger roster. Its such a slow clunky boring unbalanced game, plus most of the stages are completely unplayable. So I wanted to say thanks to the P:M team for making such an incredible mod for the smash community.

I also want to add, I really hope the team plans on eventually working on a P:M 2 for the wiiu. The game obviously has tones of potential, but its shortcomings are endless. If it is a possibility, pleaseeee seriously consider working on smash wiiu. I think everyone in the community will agree we need it!

Either way, thanks again! Can't wait for more P:M updates

 

[KayB]

I also want to add, I really hope the team plans on eventually working on a P:M 2 for the wiiu. The game obviously has tones of potential, but its shortcomings are endless. If it is a possibility, pleaseeee seriously consider working on smash wiiu. I think everyone in the community will agree we need it!

There isn't going to be a PM 2 for the Wii U. And even if it was even being considered (which probably won't happen), we wouldn't hear any official announcement in four or five years at least, and that's only assuming 3.5 is the last version and Sm4sh accessibility via hacking will be even remotely similar to Brawl's, which is incredibly unlikely.

PM in a sense, like Melee, was a happy coincidence. Had Brawl's stage builder been a little more refined and hacking was more limited, PM would certainly have not been this big or even exist at all.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Aw
thats very sad to hear

is it just way harder to mod on the wiiu?

 

[standardtoaster]

There isn't much hacking going on for the WiiU afaik. If we were going to do another project like this, I know we'd all want to be paid for it that time around, haha. I'm not really willing to put 5 years of my life into something like this again without being paid.

 

[KayB]

Aw
thats very sad to hear

is it just way harder to mod on the wiiu?

Even if modding capabilities were similar to the Wii, there's also the issue of Sm4sh not having the stack smash hack, which will make it substantially less accessible to the public.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

There isn't much hacking going on for the WiiU afaik. If we were going to do another project like this, I know we'd all want to be paid for it that time around, haha. I'm not really willing to put 5 years of my life into something like this again without being paid.

Ah ya that sounds pretty reasonable lol
Maybe we can organize a fund raising campaign for u guys though that probably would cause issues with nintendo shutting u guys down.

Even if modding capabilities were similar to the Wii, there's also the issue of Sm4sh not having the stack smash hack, which will make it substantially less accessible to the public.

Well at least if it was out there and available in some way lol. Its just that Smash 4 legitimately sucks. I duno how many people agree, but its such a poorly designed game, arguably worse than brawl even.

 

[zigheart]

Ah ya that sounds pretty reasonable lol
Maybe we can organize a fund raising campaign for u guys though that probably would cause issues with nintendo shutting u guys down.



Well at least if it was out there and available in some way lol. Its just that Smash 4 legitimately sucks. I duno how many people agree, but its such a poorly designed game, arguably worse than brawl even.

eh honestly wiiu is still really new. to put it into perspective i'm pretty sure we only knew about the twilight hack after the first year the wii was out. smash hacking wasn't even born yet. give it time. there is enough motivation among us hackers i imagine it will be done at some point. people just haven't found any "viable" exploits with the wiiu yet. just think about it. people modded the wii side of the wiiu you in the first day cause some bloke decided to smash stack it. i guarantee that was on a whim >.> i don't know if PM will be around but there will most likely be new teams that come out. all games get hacked at some point. even if its a simple game shark code.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Well that's good to know
Hopefully ur right, cause I don't even think i'll be playing much of smash wiiu lol. It's pretty crappy.

 

[Foo]

There isn't much hacking going on for the WiiU afaik. If we were going to do another project like this, I know we'd all want to be paid for it that time around, haha. I'm not really willing to put 5 years of my life into something like this again without being paid.

Let's start a kickstarter! One of the donation goals would be getting enough money for nintendo to file a lawsuit! :D



Yeah, I'm more than fine with PM sticking on brawl. It's for the best in many many ways.

 

[Prince Longstrok]

There isn't much hacking going on for the WiiU afaik. If we were going to do another project like this, I know we'd all want to be paid for it that time around, haha. I'm not really willing to put 5 years of my life into something like this again without being paid.

Could I pay you in sexual favors?

Err.. Stupid autocorrect.

I meant sexual deeds.

 

[muleet]

I don't see why there should be another PM. PM is based on melee at first, to make a PM 2 would mean to redesign another brand new game into melee again, (with the exact same variations that we know) so at the end it would be like brawl's PM, but with better graphics and more character.
What for? The PMDT can already do that.

 

[zigheart]

I don't see why there should be another PM. PM is based on melee at first, to make a PM 2 would mean to redesign another brand new game into melee again, (with the exact same variations that we know) so at the end it would be like brawl's PM, but with better graphics and more character.
What for? The PMDT can already do that.

the object wouldn't be to recreate "melee" it would be to recreate a new game all together. i'm positive there will be more possibilities provided once smash 4 gets hacked. its a matter of learning how the files work. there will be new code in the PSA and new effects, new possibilities and certainly new challenges. it WILL happen eventually but there is no telling how long. it could be next year it could be 5 years from now. it really took about 5-6 years for brawl to mature. the biggest issue i have with the PM community is how "stuck" they are on melee do you remember how much everyone complained about butter fingers >.> and i know EVERYONE did. yet we added it back into PM! xD

the goal of PM was never to "recreate" melee but bring aspects of brawl and melee together making a better hybrid for compettitive play. we have come a long ways, and deviated quite a bit from melee as a whole. the gameplay is "similar" but face it. its a completely different game. with new techniques added from brawl as well as other iterations of smash. and new code that is unique to PM like turbo and stamina modes.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

I don't see why there should be another PM. PM is based on melee at first, to make a PM 2 would mean to redesign another brand new game into melee again, (with the exact same variations that we know) so at the end it would be like brawl's PM, but with better graphics and more character.
What for? The PMDT can already do that.

Well by this logic, why ever make a new smash bros ever? Lets just keep playing melee forever.

 

[Deleted member]

Well by this logic, why ever make a new smash bros ever? Lets just keep playing melee forever.

because we're not all 17 anymore and we realize that game has issues. don't actually say that in public though.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

why not? Game developers need to know when they're doing a bad job. We're paying good money for these games, they better be perfect (talking about smash4, not P:M, P:M is perfect already - and its free!)

 

[WinterShorts]

I don't see why there should be another PM. PM is based on melee at first, to make a PM 2 would mean to redesign another brand new game into melee again, (with the exact same variations that we know) so at the end it would be like brawl's PM, but with better graphics and more character.
What for? The PMDT can already do that.

That would mean......3 MELEES!? When you put it that way I think that's a little overboard.

 

[Frozn~]

Thank you PMDT, this game is the bee's knees

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

That would mean......3 MELEES!? When you put it that way I think that's a little overboard.

but P:M isnt melee. Its gameplay is just more LIKE melee. There are different modes, and more characters etc. It doesnt even play exactly like melee. Its just got really nice tight controls.
Nintendo should be using the melee engine, tweaking it, and adding modes, characters and improving graphics. That's all that needs to be done. I dont know why they insist on starting from scratch every time they make a game.

 

[JayTheUnseen]

but P:M isnt melee. Its gameplay is just more LIKE melee. There are different modes, and more characters etc. It doesnt even play exactly like melee. Its just got really nice tight controls.
Nintendo should be using the melee engine, tweaking it, and adding modes, characters and improving graphics. That's all that needs to be done. I dont know why they insist on starting from scratch every time they make a game.

I agree,I think Nintendo should make a Smash engine and stick with it,not start over every time.Then again,good things have come of it;I like all the SBs,but they are good for different things,including Brawl.So I'm actually fine with whatever direction.But if they did stick with one engine,they'd get farther faster,for sure.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Exactly. They could get so much more done and with way less effort. their logic is broken.

 

[Narpas_sword]

their logic is broken.

Their 'logic' is based on their business model, goals and criteria.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Well they are wrong lol
Everyone will buy smash bros no matter what they do. they dont need a special business model for it. And their goals have generally led them in a bad direction, nintendo has generally been making crappier games the past 10 years. I mean still decent and still fun, but they are really coming short on a lot.

The PMDT has made a way better smash bros game than nintendo. PM is infinitely better than smash4. Better modes, better gameplay, better stages. Like i said above the only thing smash4 has over pm is the roster. If we could have PM with smash 4's roster and hardware capabilities, that would be absolutely incredible.

 

[Narpas_sword]

The PMDT has made a way better smash bros game than nintendo. .

PMDT has made a mod.
They have not made a game.

There is a stark difference.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

okay im sorry for the wrong terminology.. but the PMDT doesnt have the same tools, resources, team or funds that nintendo has. If the PMDT can make the changes that theyve made to Brawl, nintendo should be able to make a game far superior in gameplay, options, modes etc.

 

[Narpas_sword]

assuming their business goals align with your opinion of course...

 

[muleet]

Mods and conventional games are fundamentally the same thing. The real difference between them is the will to make money.
For instance, you are talking about "business goals", but it has absolutely nothing to do with video games.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

assuming their business goals align with your opinion of course...

Their only concern should be to make their all fans as happy as possible. We're the ones that make them exist by buying their products. If they keep making sub par games because of their "goals" they need to change their "goals" cause their "goals" are wrong. Period.

 

[WinterShorts]

but P:M isnt melee. Its gameplay is just more LIKE melee. There are different modes, and more characters etc. It doesnt even play exactly like melee. Its just got really nice tight controls.
Nintendo should be using the melee engine, tweaking it, and adding modes, characters and improving graphics. That's all that needs to be done. I dont know why they insist on starting from scratch every time they make a game.

If Nintendo tweaked the Melee engine, then they would make it so no glitches and exploits happen, right? I mean Sakurai likes Melee, but that creation wasn't what he wanted it to be. He wanted smash to be for everyone (except apperently competitive players if he's adding stage hazards to almost everything and leaves competitive play only to FD).

The point is, I don't think he's gonna do Melee again. I remember he said that in an interview.

 

[Foo]

Their only concern should be to make their all fans as happy as possible. We're the ones that make them exist by buying their products. If they keep making sub par games because of their "goals" they need to change their "goals" cause their "goals" are wrong. Period.

Well, the vast majority of smash players treat it as a simple party game, and don't play it competitively at all. Nintendo decided that giving competitive smash players so many tools made the game less fun for casual players.

EG Someone goes over to their friend's house and they have melee. The guy is wavedashing, shffling, and etc all over the place and 4 stocks him. He decides he had no fun and doesn't buy the game.

EG Someone goes over to their friend's house and he has brawl. His friend is better, but he still puts up a good fight and, in a three stock game, usually gets his opponent down to one stock. He had a good time overall and decides to buy the game to play with his other friends and the process repeats.

^This is nintendo's thought process. Maybe it's correct from a fiscal standpoint, maybe it's not. The believe having a large separation between good and players alienates newer players and discourages the game's growth and reduces sales. Since smash is targeted at a casual audience primarily, they want to avoid this. Melee being as competitive as it was/is was a complete accident.

Anyway, my main point is, while the new smash doesn't make competitive smashers happy, it makes their casual playerbase happy, and that's where most of the big bucks come in.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

If Nintendo tweaked the Melee engine, then they would make it so no glitches and exploits happen, right? I mean Sakurai likes Melee, but that creation wasn't what he wanted it to be. He wanted smash to be for everyone (except apperently competitive players if he's adding stage hazards to almost everything and leaves competitive play only to FD).

The point is, I don't think he's gonna do Melee again. I remember he said that in an interview.

Aiming to make all games for everyone is the wrong path. The casual gaming market should stick to mobile devices, and games like mario party, dance dance revolution and ruitar hero. This whole concept of making games for everyone is a terrible decision on nintendos part. Its not even making nintendo more money in general. Consoles are more for serious gamers not ppl who wana pick up and play. This is my problem with most of nintendos games lately. Though good games are still being put out there, they are being very limited often times.

I see the "though process" but its not a good one at all. Games are supposed to be challenging. If you suck too bad for you.. get back on ur iphone playing candy crush. Also, a fighting game needs to be made competitive. It doesnt make sense to make it a party game. Heck.. if you want smash bros to act as a party game turn on items and boom its a party game no matter how competitive the gameplay is. And if project m or melee had smash tour, those are great modes to make it a party game as well.

 

[Foo]

Aiming to make all games for everyone is the wrong path. The casual gaming market should stick to mobile devices, and games like mario party, dance dance revolution and ruitar hero. This whole concept of making games for everyone is a terrible decision on nintendos part. Its not even making nintendo more money in general. Consoles are more for serious gamers not ppl who wana pick up and play. This is my problem with most of nintendos games lately. Though good games are still being put out there, they are being very limited often times.

I see the "though process" but its not a good one at all. Games are supposed to be challenging. If you suck too bad for you.. get back on ur iphone playing candy crush. Also, a fighting game needs to be made competitive. It doesnt make sense to make it a party game. Heck.. if you want smash bros to act as a party game turn on items and boom its a party game no matter how competitive the gameplay is. And if project m or melee had smash tour, those are great modes to make it a party game as well.

VWEE MUST EXTERMINATE ALL CASUAL GAMERS! Geez, you're starting to sound like a PC master race fanatic. I normally try hard to be polite, but please shut the !@#$ up. You have no idea what you are talking about and are being extremely pretentious.

YOU DON'T GET TO DECIDE WHAT GAMES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE. A fighting game can be casual, a first person shooter can kid friendly, a rogue-like can be easy, a party game can be competetive, an open world game can have a strict narrative, and a mobile game can be bone-crushingly difficult. Games aren't supposed to be challenging, music isn't supposed to be deep, paintings aren't supposed to be beautiful, and movies aren't supposed to be thought provoking. They are SUPPOSED to be whatever their creator envisions them to be. Games, movies, paintings, music and any other art form is this way.Nobody gets to say what art is or isn't, is supposed to be or isn't supposed to be and that's whats great about it. For instance, I love deep and meaningful music and seek it out as much as I can. However, I'll totally blast some trashy pop music when I'm doing stuff. Gaming works the same way.

There is absolutely a niche for casual fighting games. Competitive fighting games are a dime a dozen. You've got your mortal combat, street fighter, marvel vs capcom, etc. How many casual fighting games does the console market have? One, and that's smash. [sarcasm]Obviously, there is no place for a game like that seeing how poorly smash has sold, amiright?[/sarcasm]

Smash, on a casual level, is a game where friends and family of any age can all sit down on the couch, play as silly nintendo characters, and beat the everliving !@#$ out of eachother in a family friendly manner and I think that's goddamn beautiful. Add in a splash of rng and a pinch of poor balance an you mitigate the "sore loser" effect people tend to have in vs. games. Because the game is so random and hectic, people don't really care as much whether they win or lose.

Even with all rng toned up to max, I'll still 4-stock any brand new player every time and make them feel helpless doing so. Put me in that situation in brawl or smash 4, and I'll probably wind up only winning 70% of games. This doesn't make either of the two games inherently better, it just means they are targeted differently. I love the hell out of PM, and hate smash 4. Do I think smash 4 is a bad game? Absolutely not, I think it's a fantastic game, it's just not for me.

As someone who almost exclusively plays competitive games at the highest level I can manage, and someone who cranks single player up to hardest at every chance: !@#$ you for acting like casual gamers are inferior, !@#$ you for thinking they "belong" on any particular gaming platform, and !@#$ you for thinking you have the right to decide what game genres should do what! You are a cancer to the gaming community, and are the reason gamers have such a !@#$y reputation.


/rant

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

I didnt say get rid of casual gamers. But if someone cant play a game that doesnt mean they need to be catered to.

And sakurai could have easily made it possible to turn off stage hazards (among other things he could have easily done) which would have made the game a lot more playable by competitive players. And please dont bring up the omega versions of stages because thats a lame way to do it. I dont wana play on a flat surface of every stage, i wana have the option to play on different terrains without having to avoid nonsense from constantly happening.

I'm sorry if i sound pretentious, and I'm sorry I riled you up to the point that you couldn't be polite any more, but for mr, if i'm paying for something i want it to be the best thing it can be. I want ALL of the options. It takes no effort for nintendo to at LEAST give the players a crap load of more options. You cant tell me they arent coming up short with that - and all because of their stupid ideologies.

Smash sells so much because it is a one-of-a-kind game NOT because its a party game. Its a game that pits all nintendo characters in a fighting game setting which is not something you can find anywhere else. You can do ANYTHING to smash bros and itll print money cause there are no competitors. PSAllstars sucked donkey **** so thats not even a viable option. Smash bros concept and general gameplay is perfect, but forcing EVERYONE to play it in a party setting is stupid. Like i said before OPTIONS OPTIONS OPTIONS! And by the way, if nintendo wants a business plan.. the fact that smash bros is so unique gives them a fantastic marketing tool for ALL of their games (upcoming, already released, japan only, popular or unpopular). Adding reasonable character DLC packages or DLC with the purchase of other games can bring tones of money into Nintendo. Hell even adding more random characters can increase sales for a game people didnt know about before. No one knew about fire emblem before melee, and then it sold almost as many copies in the US as Japan.

Anyway, i digress. I do understand the "art" aspect of a creation you are talking about. BUT while making art, fans need to be considered. Hardcore fans' wants and needs are the most important . The loyal nintendo and smash bros fans who play smash and other nintendo games at a hardcore level are the ones that nintendo should cater to. Not randoms that play nintendo here and there.

Anyway, bottom line... Can you honestly tell me you have more fun playing smash wiiu than P:M?

Also, I do not take offense to your rant, i just respectfully disagree.

 

[Foo]

No one is FORCING you to play it in a competitive setting, or play it at all for that matter. There are still smash 4 tournaments, like there were brawl tournaments. They'll never dethrown melee, but that's irrelevant.

When you say they don't need to cater to casual players, I completely agree. I am in 100% agreement with that statement. Why? Because it also means they don't have to cater to hardcore players either. If you want games aimed at hardcore and competitive players, you should hop off the nintendo ship. The moment they had the tools to make a large game, they have been targeting the casual audience. The only reason old nintendo games were difficult is because they HAD to be. People wanted to play long games to get their money's worth, but they didn't have the space to make long games. They instead made them hard as hell to make them "longer."

Pretty much all of the options you ask for are there. You can turn off items, pick relatively neutral stages (about as neutral as smash stages have ever been, melee has what, 5 neutral 1 counter?) The only thing that is lacking is the global depth for competitive. Low movement options, no tech skill, little strategic potential etc. This is an effort to prevent good players from absolutely ****ting on new players no matter what. If brawl had the same mechanics as melee, new players would be turned off by getting wrecked by their friends who were ok at melee. If they made melee 2, sales for brawl would have been much lower. It would have been much better for competitive play, but that goes against nintendo's design philosophy. They make every effort to make the game accessible to everyone. While smash 4 isn't nearly as good on a competitve level, it doesn't actively punish you for being good at the game. It's accessible.

Also, I know FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR more nintendo fans who aren't "hardcore gamers." Nintendo is basically the only game designer that makes fun casual games for console, and the only console makers who made a console that wasn't just a crappy PC. They ARE considering their fans, just primarily the LARGER portion. This portion of people buy every pokemon game, own a copy of smash, mario party, mario cart etc. to play with friends for a good time and play through most mario games because they are a pleasant experience. I, as with most gamers like me, look for much more in games. Games are a passion for me, not just a simple hobby. Despite that, I am perfectly fine with people seeing gaming the other way. In fact, I even encourage and support it.

If you read my previous post in its entirety, you'd know that I already gave my opinion on smash 4. I HATE it. I have no fun playing it, and it goes against everything that makes a game fun for me. However, I think it is a fantastic game. It will sell MASSIVELY and it deserves to do so. You see, I understand the difference between "good and bad" and "like and dislike." Just because I don't like something doesn't mean it's bad. I will not buy smash 4 or play it at all. I will continue playing Project M and league of legends as my primary games, and putting my energy and support into them. If you don't like the direction smash is going, I suggest you do the same.

Project M already exists, do you really need three competitive smash games? If you like project M and dislike smash 4, that's absolutely fine. There are many who agree with you. However, there are many more who disagree. Feel free to cast your economic vote by not buying nintendo games, but just note that you will always be outvoted.

If my rant didn't offend you, you either didn't understand what I was saying clearly enough, or I didn't say it right. The main reason for my rant against you wasn't because you said nintendo had flawed design philosophy. That's a respectable and debatable opinion to hold. I was outraged because said casual gamers didn't belong on consoles or specific genres, and acted like they were inferior. That is the kind of thinking that makes people look down upon gamers and gaming as a hobby or lifestyle.

 

[WinterShorts]

Aiming to make all games for everyone is the wrong path. The casual gaming market should stick to mobile devices, and games like mario party, dance dance revolution and ruitar hero. This whole concept of making games for everyone is a terrible decision on nintendos part. Its not even making nintendo more money in general. Consoles are more for serious gamers not ppl who wana pick up and play. This is my problem with most of nintendos games lately. Though good games are still being put out there, they are being very limited often times.

I see the "though process" but its not a good one at all. Games are supposed to be challenging. If you suck too bad for you.. get back on ur iphone playing candy crush. Also, a fighting game needs to be made competitive. It doesnt make sense to make it a party game. Heck.. if you want smash bros to act as a party game turn on items and boom its a party game no matter how competitive the gameplay is. And if project m or melee had smash tour, those are great modes to make it a party game as well.

It'd be the correct path to make a game for everyone in Nintendo's part. User-friendly games sell more, remember? I don't have exact numbers, but Brawl sold WAAAY more than Melee, and company's priorities are this green lettuce called "money".

I mean if everyone was competitive like me, that would be a dream come true if everyone was also having fun with it. But no, for life like mine, finding a competitive player offline is apperently a sin for me. If I ask them the question, "which is better, Brawl or Melee", they'd give reasons not involving competitiveness at all.

Let me also remind you that Melee is a very hard game when trying to enter it's competitive enviornment. You need to understand Wavedashing, Dashdancing, L-Canceling, Wavelanding, Spacing, and if you're a Fox player, you need to learn all about the shine (reflector) and what options you can do with your character. I only said the basic stuff, there are FAR more things you can do in Melee to give you a slightly competitive advantage, I try to teach a bit to my friends, and do they do it? No. They don't even try to do the tech. My friends don't want to be competitive, they always want to say to me, "I'll beat you with X characters" and then I 4-stock or 3-stock them EVERYTIME. Everyone around me is a noob, and the only place I have for a competitive sanctuary is the magical world of the internet.

So what does my life have to do with this conversation? Simple: Not Everyone Plays To Competitive Levels, Nor Wants Too. Maybe They Think They're Competitive And Think They're The Best, But They're F**king Noobs. That Is Typical High School Behavior. They will always play Brawl (pardon me, Smash 4) because it's much easier to pick up and play. I mean I totally agree with that, even competitively, because there's barely any techs you have to practice, learn any effective ways of using them, and do you're homework on.

I guess you could say this argument is based off my experience as a High School Student, but that's exactly the point. Look at the competitive scene. They have face-cams of the people playing right? You know what they are? Adults. (and maybe one or two teenagers in college). It's obvious that adults have way more experience than us teenagers, not just how to handle life and it's deadly drug-filled paths. They play Yugioh or Magic, and they will always have the $300 to $600 deck. Same thing here: if they play Smash Bros., they will do whatever it takes to win. Study the mechanics, and learn what the hell they're playing. They have the advantage. Adults have more of a chance to show dedication in competitiveness than us edoitic teenagers.

My point being, before I rant on more of what you probably know, is that games like Brawl and Smash 4 will be easy for every person in the world, but games like Melee, nowadays at least, will only be recongnized and played by adults, not us high schoolers, and they will play to a competitive level. Brawl (quite possibbly Smash 4) has / will sell more than Melee ever did, and I hate to burst you're bubble, but Sakurai wants his game to be a sort of videogame playground for everyone to enjoy, barely caring what happens to the competitive enviornment of Smash. Just face it, he's not going to make another Melee.

#rant.

 

[PandaPanda Senketsu]

Most people who I see play smash competitively are in high school, and the ones who aren't in high school are like 18 and 19. I dunno what you're talkin bout boi

 

[WinterShorts]

Most people who I see play smash competitively are in high school, and the ones who aren't in high school are like 18 and 19. I dunno what you're talkin bout boi

Then you must live in smash heaven. Whereas, I'm surrounded by a bunch of noobs.

 

[Anonistry]

The only reason I would want 4P:M is because purrty colors and the Miis and Lil Mac. Past that... I dunno, how many different ways can you skin this particular breed of cat?

Like, I guess it really is just... how many times do I feel like hopping consoles over a mod of a game? If I don't like Smash 4, I really couldn't justify a new console, and new game, just for the mod to be ported to that. Its not a good ratio of reward to investment for me. There needs to be enough intrinsically better in S4 that Brawl can't give and can't be achieved by modding, and so I would want it for that, and THEN want the new mod. Seems... demanding for what it is, I guess.

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

While project m does not have smash 4's roaster think of it like this.

Project M has 41 characters. Smash 4 will have 52 characters. That is only really 11 difference.

Their are 6 characters that smash 4 does not have (Wolf, Lucas, Snake, Squritle, Ivysaur, Roy) Smash 4 introduces 16 new characters, which the project m team will not add into P:M (Not that you couldn't add them yourself with modding), on the reverse end of it project m has 42 stages that can be expanded up to 76 stages when ever the new stage expansion pack comes out.

Not to mention that project m characters have been balanced into a mirror shine.

 

[Spak]

Then you must live in smash heaven. Whereas, I'm surrounded by a bunch of noobs.

I dunno. My core friend group is mostly smashers (7 of us) and we have all gone to tournaments together. I'm only 17.

 

[WinterShorts]

I dunno. My core friend group is mostly smashers (7 of us) and we have all gone to tournaments together. I'm only 17.

Why is everyone so much luckier than me?