Big Neutral Game Issue

[Greasy_SSBM]

Hey all!

I've recently been playing against/practicing with higher-level players, and one of the main issues I've been called out on is that I "move backwards too much". Now, being a Marth main, one of my main goals in neutral is to dd in/out of their range and try and bait them. However, I seem to be resorting to dashing back and pivot grabbing almost EVERY thing they try and do. I constantly get beat by overshooting nair/dair. Should I use more wd dtilt/run cancel dtilt/dtilt in general? I would use fair, but that's only good if they're already airborne (in this case, I guess that counters overshooting aerials? I'm figuring things out as I write this). Shield stop fade back nair might be good too, right? If anyone wants to see what I'm talking about w my neutral, I can link some sets.

Thanks everyone!

P.S. another issue I'm having is when I'm hit, I cant seem to reset back to neutral. Any advice?

 

[AirFair]

If you are getting hit a lot for dashing back and giving up stage, think about why they are attacking your dash back in particular. One thing that may help you is to broaden your options out of dash back, and see if there is anything you can do to stop their approach, or punish. A couple of things that Marth has are pivot grab/fair.

Getting comfortable using dtilt while approaching them will help a lot in establishing a threat on your movement forward, which you can use to punish people by going in as if you would dtilt and then backing away and punishing their attack. This can make an opponent more defensive, and less likely to overshoot.

Using fair when you read that they jump is a great way to use Marth's strengths, definitely an idea to think more about.

As far as shieldstop nair goes, retreating aerials like that are a good way to zone, so I think that would work out fine for you, as long as you are mindful of how you space it, since some characters have moves that sneak under nair, like Peach's dash attack for example.

If you have timestamps for specific situations, feel free to link anything.

 

[Greasy_SSBM]

If you are getting hit a lot for dashing back and giving up stage, think about why they are attacking your dash back in particular. One thing that may help you is to broaden your options out of dash back, and see if there is anything you can do to stop their approach, or punish. A couple of things that Marth has are pivot grab/fair.

Getting comfortable using dtilt while approaching them will help a lot in establishing a threat on your movement forward, which you can use to punish people by going in as if you would dtilt and then backing away and punishing their attack. This can make an opponent more defensive, and less likely to overshoot.

Using fair when you read that they jump is a great way to use Marth's strengths, definitely an idea to think more about.

As far as shieldstop nair goes, retreating aerials like that are a good way to zone, so I think that would work out fine for you, as long as you are mindful of how you space it, since some characters have moves that sneak under nair, like Peach's dash attack for example.

If you have timestamps for specific situations, feel free to link anything.

Thanks a lot! And I will link anything if it comes to mind

 

[patio]

I know I'm digging up an old thread, but I'm struggling with the same issue. So far my answer has been- "attack" instead of giving up stage position.

But you bring up an interesting idea of options out of dash back. But dashing only leaves shield, grab, dash attack, specials, and jump available. Dash back leaves only a couple of these as viable. Are pivot aerials really my best bet?

 

[AirFair]

Although they are one frame timings, they aren't that hard to do consistently when you practice them. Pivot fair and grab are two really strong ways to cover your dash back. Of course,, you might also want to wd away again, or do a sh retreating bair as you are moving away from someone depending on the position/matchup.

 

[patio]

i guess there's all sorts of options, huh? since they're overshooting to catch dashback, how about dashback->sheildstop (let them pass through) ->(offensive option).

But I've also been thinking that if they are reading a dash back, that means they know that your dash foward carries no threat. This should mean they are vunerable to an offensive option out of they approaching dash

 

[Ladder]

Just don't dash back if they have read on it. You can grab them running at you for free if they try to overshoot. Basically just don't dash back to where they are gonna arial. The guy above me mentioned options out of dash back, these do not beat overshoot if the player overshoots correctly.