Bidou Tech Applications?

[Avokha]

Just thought I'd put up a thread regarding the recently discovered 'Bidou' tech since I have yet to see any of us Robins discuss its uses (or perhaps its lack there of).

For those who are not aware, this video goes into extensive detail on the technique:

Any use for us? Seems like it's good for optimizing actions frame-wise, though it may not be worth learning a whole new controller for it. Thoughts?

 

[LochTessMonster]

There was a small discussion about bidou that included Robin a little while ago, general consensus seems to be that it's not particularly useful for Robin due to her slow movement speed and small perfect pivot.

 

[Zareidriel]

I think Bidou is incredible. It provides such a huge library of new options that every character can benefit from it in some way. For Robin, I think that may include perfect pivots, though small, would be an excellent option to get in quickly to compensate for our low grab range. Easy trumps, which is good for everyone. Sliding spot dodge would be an interesting movement option, though we can only make it through thinner characters. The crouching perfect piviot through a platform would be immensely useful for Robin, providing extra range on, say, a platform dropped SBAIR that could mean the different from killing your target and a total whiff. Robin lacks the crouching/crawling as well as a decent perfect pivot distance. Even with that short distance, perfect pivot smashes and tilts can also be useful since they very quickly give you a few more units of distance.

Of course, this is all theoretical for now. I switched my controller to Bidou as soon as I heard about it, with no plans to ever change back. Being a Pro Controller user already makes this somewhat easier, but the loss of a Smashing Aerial stick hurts a lot. I think it'll be made up for in a few months.

It's hard as hell to use, but I highly recommend it if anyone is feeling particularly dexterous, intelligent, and determined to use the best controller scheme that exists. Especially if you're a Pro user already.

 

[Aein]

Bidou was actually not 'recently' discovered though, haha. Although it's true that only now has it gained attention to wider Western audiences due to My Smash Corner's video. It's surprising to me how much buzz there suddenly is about it. Lots of people that previously spurned Pro controllers are now saying they're planning to buy a Pro for this. xD It makes you wonder how much influence a single video or well known smasher can have on starting movements in the metagame.

I prefer Pro controllers but I haven't really explored this button layout yet. I do think that Bidou has some definite applications with Robin. Even though his perfect pivots are small, they're not useless. They're actually very useful for precise spacing with tilts and smashes, grabs, projectile mindgames and dare I even say it... landing his uptilt hitboxes just right. Bidou could greatly increase the accuracy and frequency of these without fear of misinputs and help players use him with the utmost precision.

And even if someone isn't interested in doing that with Robin, bidou looks extremely useful for momentum controlling with aerials , BAR, etc. As we all know, Robin's aerials pack quite a punch. Having a second analog for getting these just right would be satisfying.

Bidou would also be useful for even simple foxtrotting back and effort. Already without bidou, foxtrotting is a very good mobility option for Robin. And personally, I know that more often than not I will miss the timing for the opposite direction change and accidentally skid instead. Bidou could eliminate that entirely.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

Why is everyone so interested in bidou? It was a pretty crappy Pokemon, really only useful because it learned so many HM moves.

Jokes aside, I can't see bidou being at all useful for Robin. The control scheme a player uses can honestly make or break Robin, because changing a single button can drastically change how easy/hard it is to do the checkmate. Plus, Robin's perfect pivot kind of sucks. It just doesn't seem worth it.

 

[Aein]

I realize how people might not see the use of perfect pivots, but I actually use perfect pivots a lot with Robin, so maybe I've just found a personal playstyle that works for me. Largely for the reasons I outlined in my first comment.

You know, everybody puts so much emphasis on Checkmate. Sure it's amazing and a little ridiculous, but there are so many other ways to land a KO. Robin has so many tools to use. All a player needs is creativity. For example, Robin's item setup game is very under explored, so much that spectators actually think that running out of magic is a handicap for us. Rarely do I see Robin players actually do clever things with their books and item drop timing, bu it has so much potential....

I think Smash Bros players in general acquire a bit of a problem. They get so narrow minded and start thinking "I need to get this one move/combo to win. They're at the perfect percentage for this!" Like character hoohahs, upairs to up bs. Man, seeing those all the time gets a little stale. Like... what else can that character do?

 

[lmntolp]

Hey, I found something with bidou that probably only matters for Robin mains: how to smash aerials (like Checkmate) easily.

Just do L-stick to aerial direction + R-stick any direction -> Attack.
I tested this while robin was holding the bronze sword and was able to do Levin aerials. The timing feels pretty lenient actually, and you can hold or flick R-stick, whichever is more comfortable. If you choose down for R-stick, you can trigger a FF Levin aerial with a certain timing.

The alternative is pressing R-stick + Attack, which forces a smash aerial, but this has a smaller window. I'd guess it's the same as the window as inputting Fsmash without stutter stepping.

I'm not sure if this makes bidou good for Robin, but at least you can keep Levin aerials with these tricks. I'll add that B-stick is a nice perk of bidou. Wavebounce Arcfire/Nosferatu are so easy.

 

[Nah]

It's definitely something worth looking into, people should explore everything you can in order to develop a character's meta. Better to experiment with it and find out it's useless than leave the option untested. The real question is though if it'll actually be of game changing use and not be just a nice luxury. My feeling right now is that it's more likely to be the latter. Tech is nice and in some cases necessary ( instant pin, Aura Sphere B-reversing, float shenanigans, etc), but I feel that some smashers are also a little too into fancy tech when there's more important aspects of the game to master.

I personally won't really be trying this out since I suck (at tech), but it'll be nice to see what the rest of you find out.

The need to have a very specific control scheme is kinda off-putting though.

 

[AC NuBurs]

I feel like the biggest flaw with this is that when your in "bidou mode" (ie hoiding special down) you cant charge thoron, use arcfire which are all nescecities to playing robin, so you have to constantly switch from holding the special button, to then holding it down to do more movement options. Ive been goofing around with it, but ehhh, I dunno. I feel like it dosent really add much to robin, seeing as no japanese robins (as far as I know) havent picked this up despite knowing about this for 7 months speaks for the tech as well.

 

[ARGHETH]

Apparently, Mr. II was using bidou at Pound...

 

[AC NuBurs]

Apparently, Mr. II was using bidou at Pound...

Really? I wonder what control scheme he uses considering hes on a gamecube controller

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CfDJB3hWwAA-BHT.jpg:large

 

[ARGHETH]

Really? I wonder what control scheme he uses considering hes on a gamecube controller

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CfDJB3hWwAA-BHT.jpg:large

Someone said they were able to make it work I on GC controller on Reddit, so it's definitely possible.

 

[AC NuBurs]

Someone said they were able to make it work I on GC controller on Reddit, so it's definitely possible.

Interesting, well this certainly blows the **** out of my post lol.

I guess we need to bow down to our japanese overlords

 

[lmntolp]

Someone said they were able to make it work I on GC controller on Reddit, so it's definitely possible.

Here a thread related to GC controller and bidou:
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/4bu3yo/guide_bidou_gc_controller_scheme_and_more_bidou/
I've been using his personal layout on GC except with tap jump on to make up for the lost jump. By the way, holding the R-stick disables tap jump whenever I want to do that.
Here's another thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...an_still_use_a_gamecube_controller_for_bidou/

 

[Avokha]

Apparently, Mr. II was using bidou at Pound...

Looking at the stream, the chat briefly thought Nairo pulled out Bidou, but his C-stick was set to attack. No indication at all regarding Mr.II however, streamwise.

 

[ARGHETH]

Looking at the stream, the chat briefly thought Nairo pulled out Bidou, but his C-stick was set to attack. No indication at all regarding Mr.II however, streamwise.

He wasn't...he put in his tag on-stream (vs some ROB), and it was default.

 

[AC NuBurs]

Welp, I guess we can put Bidou back in the "maybe someone someday will use it and do something useful" category for now.

 

[Pokedex649]

Item drop ledge trumps seem like they'd be a useful option, although aside from that, choosing to use Bidou for Robin is all a question of whether you want more precise and easy aerials, or more precise and easy trumps and grabs. I'll probably end up using Bidou when I get the Wii U version because it would help my Shulk play. If I didn't play Shulk or any other character with a decent perfect pivot, I probably wouldn't even bother with Bidou.