Best way to practice wobbling?

[Nana Saves Popo]

I have been trying to work my IC's and my wobbling recently and I have run into a problem: I'll practice wobbling lvl 1's, 3's, 7's, and 9's but find that while the computer will sit there and take it people mash out of waaay too many of my wobble attempts. I was wondering if the computer is actually mashing and if my wobbles against them are real or just effective against computers. Does anyone know if computers mash out and if so is this a valid way to work on wobbling?

 

[Tomber]

CPUs do try to mash out and higher lvl CPUs mash out faster than lower lvl CPUs. If you want to test your wobbling set up speed then try to get your wobbling going against a lvl 7 CPU at 0%. If the CPU gets out then it's possible to do the wobble set up faster. How I used to practice fast set ups was by playing against a lvl 7 Samus, bait out a grapple and then punish with a grab and instant wobbling (note: if you're just learning wobbling then this might be really hard. See it as a long term goal.)
If you're still learning the timing then you can just see how long you're able to keep a wobbling going. As long as you're doing the wobbling right then it doesn't matter how fast the other player mashes. Try to get a CPU to 999% without screwing up. If the CPU gets away then it because your timing was off. If you are having trouble with this then you can try to use a metronome. The wobbling BPM is 200.

 

[Nana Saves Popo]

Thanks. I find I almost always get the CPU from 0% to t least ~200% but sometimes they get away at high percentages (which must mean I'm messing up)

 

[Mikeyy]

Tomber, do you have tips for fighting Fox. My punish is are on point, but it's so hard to catch him.
I almost never get the chance to do cool technical stuff.
But yeah, tips on fighting Fox??????????

 

[Tomber]

Well, I'm probably not the best to give advice on Fox as my way of playing the match up is quite unorthodox in some aspects as I focus more on desyncs and wobbling set ups than the other high level ICs mains, especially "lag-less" set ups (as I call them) that make it possible to get wobbling going at very low %. I can give you some general advice though.


Be patient. You don't really want to approach Fox unless you get a read on the Fox player's movement. It's really hard to hit a good Fox player who knows how he should keep his space against ICs. It's possible for Ice Climbers to beat Fox because we can punish harder than Fox when we get an opening, but it's much easier for the Fox to get openings on his own which is the main reason why I'd say the MU is in Fox's favor. The ICs player has to understand how the Fox player moves and then stop him. You shouldn't try to catch Fox directly (unless he's in some sort of lag) because that's just what the Fox player wants you to do.


With that in mind, how you should play the MU depends completely on how the Fox plays the MU. The if Fox player camp platforms a lot then you need to trick him to jump into your hit boxes (mainly uair) - perhaps throw a waveland on platform -> grab into the mix if the Fox respects your uair too much and shields on a platform from time to time. Again, don't try to catch the Fox recklessly. Bait him into spots where you can hit him. Empty short or full jumps are great for baiting the Fox to move around without you have to commit hard.


If he wants to fight you on the ground then you have a few options. 1) You can approach with moves like WD to jab, f-tilt and perhaps grab if you overshooting the WD (aim behind him). These approaches are countered by full jumping so you want to throw some WD to u-tilt or uair into the mix as well if he tries to jump over you. 2) You can bait the Fox to approach you and punish his approaches with WD/run back to grab/smash/SH-fair/SH-bair. Fox is most likely going to approach with shine, SH Nair or SH dair, so these are the moves you want to out space. This way of fighting Fox is probably the most solid. Just make sure you don’t give up too much space when you wavedash back, because ICs can’t really do anything once they are catch at the edge as are have a hard time regaining stage control. 3) You can use a lot of blizzard and ice block desyncs and punish with WD to grab if they get hit. This is kind of hard, as you still want to trick the Fox and not just randomly throw out blizzard and ice blocks. Try to catch the Fox off guard.


I have all of the above in mind when I play against Fox, but what I do depends competently on the Fox player's style and how my conditioning has been working out. Armada's Fox pretty much camps platforms all the time while leffens Fox fights me more on the ground. Different stuff works against different players.


So yeah, be patient and notice what the Fox is doing. Then stop him.

 

[Mikeyy]

Word, i'm going to keep re-reading what you've told me, thank you.
Could you explain ways of playing some of the match-ups I have problems with?
The characters I have the most trouble fighting other than Fox are;
Peach, Jiggz, Falcon, Gannon, Samus, Luigi, Zelda, and both Links.
More advice and or match-up smarts would be helpfull.
I picked up Falcon because he's always been my teams character.
Oh yeah, advice on ICs in teams?
./l

 

[Tomber]

Sure, but I would need some more information about what you're struggling with before I can help you, like videos of you playing or some words from you. However, looking at the characters you have trouble playing against (like Peach, Falcon, Ganon, Samus, Luigi, Zelda) I would guess you have a hard time dealing with hard hitting moves that are good at splitting Popo and Nana up, like the down-smash of Peach/Luigi/Samus or the forward air of Falcon/Zelda/Ganon. If this is the case then my best advice would be to work on your spacing in general so that you become able to out-space these moves and punish them.

If you haven't read it already then I think you should read Fly's guide on playing the ICs.
Also, if you want some more advice on specific match ups then check out the match ups thread. It's kind of out not to date but it's still a good read.

 

[Mikeyy]

Sure, but I would need some more information about what you're struggling with before I can help you, like videos of you playing or some words from you. However, looking at the characters you have trouble playing against (like Peach, Falcon, Ganon, Samus, Luigi, Zelda) I would guess you have a hard time dealing with hard hitting moves that are good at splitting Popo and Nana up, like the down-smash of Peach/Luigi/Samus or the forward air of Falcon/Zelda/Ganon. If this is the case then my best advice would be to work on your spacing in general so that you become able to out-space these moves and punish them.

If you haven't read it already then I think you should read Fly's guide on playing the ICs.
Also, if you want some more advice on specific match ups then check out the match ups thread. It's kind of out not to date but it's still a good read.

If you want, on YouTube if you type HP Monthlies 2 you can find vids of me playing. My gamer tage is Mikey.
If you were still interested in helping me improve.

 

[DerfMidWest]

I can give a lot of advice on ICs in teams, but I'm sleepy so I'm not going to right now.
Do you have specific questions?
Or just need the general strategy broken down?

 

[Mikeyy]

General advice would be great.
And how do you feel about double ICs?

 

[DerfMidWest]

Double ICs is terrible. I've done it before for fun, but I would never do it in tournament. The only stages it really works on are dreamland... and maybe fd or stadium... you need a lot of room...Basically, ICs in doubles control the ground while their partner plays mostly on platforms.
Characters that work well for this are Fox, Falco, Sheik, Falcon, and (sometimes) Marth. You can also do puff or peach with some success, but I'm personally not a fan of either of them as partners, but I prefer puff to peach.

Once you get out of the neutral position, you have two roles:
a) You are a wall. Your partner beats the hell out of one opponent and you prevent the other from approaching/helping them
b) You combo one opponent to death while your partner acts as the wall.

In neutral you're pretty much gonna shoot a lot of iceblocks, blizzard a lot, and use a lot of dsmash.
ICs actually tend to wrack up the majority of the kills in doubles, and they can stock tank as well as long as your partner knows to keep opponents away from the ledge while you're recovering.

You have to develop a good sopo to do well in teams, because your nana is going to die very quickly a lot of the time and you'll just lose her in the chaos of doubles, but if you have a strong sopo, it doesn't matter too much, because in doubles it's a lot more fundamentals and spacing/positioning.

if you have any more specific questions, I can clarify for you.

 

[S2rulL]

The best way to practice Wobbling in my eyes, as previously mentioned, is Wobble a CPU from 0 - 999% without dropping it, then play against a friend and have them allow you to Wobble them to 999% whilst they're mashing as hard as they possibly can, as well as having them make their mashing as loud as possible. This'll test not only your execution, but also your concentration. I can't begin to tell you how many times I've dropped a Wobble because I've been listening to background noise and not focusing on the match.

 

[Myougi]

The ideal way to practice Wobbling is to fight Dr. Peepee.

Seriously, look at that mashing.

 

[DerfMidWest]

The absolute best way to practice is to just do it against real people as often as you can.
actually wobbling someone is the easy part, being able to set it up correctly against a real player is what's difficult.
Wobble in friendlies, your friends will get mad, but then you'll start outplacing them, so who cares.