Best use of Down smash

[DrizzyDrew]

Just started using Megaman and I find his down smash to be very bad to its long cool down after the move is used. Only way I see it being used would be at the ledge to catch the roll or get up. That is just an idea, but I would like to hear from you Megaman players. What is the best use (if any) for down smash.

Cheers!

Here I try out Megaman and see what he is all about!
Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjB5XyJy4R4

 

[ravemaster47]

Dsmash is pretty bad, almost as bad as Fsmash. But it can kill at low percents. Great on a shield break. Lately, I've been trying to use it for ledge coverage.

 

[DrizzyDrew]

Dsmash is pretty bad, almost as bad as Fsmash. But it can kill at low percents. Great on a shield break. Lately, I've been trying to use it for ledge coverage.

thats pretty much how I think it should be used.

 

[nedskii-]

I use it for jab locks after a 1 secondish charge. Great damage and enough knockback to not be punished. i also tend to use it as a "desperate" mixup off of a good read near the ledge or knowing they have no jumps. It covers most of mega man's body. Surprisingly this has worked for me quite often and I do not recall the last time I whiffed and was punished for it. It actually won me a match today when I was down 100% getting me a gimp ha. So, never render it useless, but an "extreme case mixup"

 

[Sorichuudo]

Punishing whiffed rests from Jiggs.
After a shield break.
After getting a jab lock.
That is pretty much it, this move really isn't very usefull.

Even with how bad charge shot is, at least we can catch people with pivot fsmashes or trade with a weak attack/projectile sometimes.

Even for catching get ups or rolls from the ledge, i think usmash is just all around easier to hit with(plus there are few things as infuriating as getting a hard read with flame blast, only to hit with the weak hit of the attack and get punished for it ).

 

[CanadianMegaMan]

Down smash is mega's worst smash, and probably his worst move, to be honest. The only times it's better to down smash instead of up smash is the small % window when it will kill and up tilt won't, after that small window it is outclassed in every way by either up smash, for catching rolls, or up tilt, for netting kills on lemon locks and shield breaks.

 

[Rush 2112]

Best used as a taunt.

Honestly though, in all the options where people use it, there is a better option. Sure it works sometimes but if you want to play at high level you can only do stuff that works more often than that. Exception being stuff like shield breaks. Obviously that will work all of the time.

 

[CopShowGuy]

It should rarely to never be used, honestly. Takes too long to start up and too long to cool down. AND it has a sourspot that is usually unsafe on hit.

Though sometimes I'll still throw the move out and catch people unaware. Maybe 1 in 20 matches or so. It is nice that Mega Man ducks down so it's good for catching people who are jumping in...but that's about it.

 

[Nu~]

A reeeeeeeaaallly situational anti air. And a good read against those who rely on SH'ing heavily in their nuetral game (falco, Diddy, ZSS)

Perhaps we can condition foes to jump in on us with heavy grounded pellet usage, then let dsmash rip when they try to jump over our barrage?

 

[Megamang]

Very high damage is nice for shieldbreak chains on an opponent who holds shield too much.

For example, if you stick a crash bomber and have a metal blade in hand (not too uncommon since you can fire crash bomber while holding a blade!) and they shield half a second too early, RAR at them ->Z-drop (2hits) + crash bomber explosion +landing D-smash will break their shield, and metal blade/crash bomber will give you relative safety from punishment. Additionally, you can snag vulnerability frames if they roll or dodge at slightly the wrong time.

Additionally, you can Zdrop the blade facing away, then walk forwards (away from them) ready to u-tilt if they roll away from the blade+bomber. Now im getting more into general shield pressure with metal blades, but basically if you are pressuring them enough to weaken a shield and manage to land an empty hop, Z drop, or simple walking approach, and you know utilt barely wont break their shield, dsmash will get the job done.


Then of course, use a charged dsmash on their broken shield self :^]

 

[KrakatoaPower]

I would say upwards or forward glide toss (DITCIT) to downsmash is a good mix up if you played the long range game the whole match.

 

[CanadianMegaMan]

I would say upwards or forward glide toss (DITCIT) to downsmash is a good mix up if you played the long range game the whole match.

It would be, but it is outclassed by either upsmash or uptilt in that scenario. dsmash is really only good during the small window in which uptilt wont kill but dsmash will, which is a pretty small window.

 

[Megamang]

Up smash does less damage, and you don't want to stale the uptilt if you can stale d-smash instead. These are tiny differences, but if we are talking optimally, I would want to hit the dsmash in any situation I can.

 

[CanadianMegaMan]

Up smash does less damage, and you don't want to stale the uptilt if you can stale d-smash instead. These are tiny differences, but if we are talking optimally, I would want to hit the dsmash in any situation I can.

If the percent is low enough that uptilt wont kill, Upsmash is less punishable because you dont have to worry about dsmashes sweetspot. If you miss the sweetspot on dsmash, you will get punished. If you hit late with upsmash, they have a much harder time punishing, and you can follow up with upair, fair, diagonal sawblade, w/e you like. If uptilt will kill, then you can see why it would outclass dsmash. It comes out faster, has roughly the same sweetspot, and uptilt has invincibility frames on start up. Dsmash is too slow on start up, and too laggy on endlag to not be outclassed by either upsmash or uptilt, regardless of the relatively small difference in damage.

 

[Megamang]

"These are tiny differences, but if we are talking optimally, I would want to hit the dsmash in any situation I can."

-Me, yesterday at 6:11 PM.

 

[xIvan321]

It would be, but it is outclassed by either upsmash or uptilt in that scenario. dsmash is really only good during the small window in which uptilt wont kill but dsmash will, which is a pretty small window.

Up tilt never slides however. You will only DITCIT to up tilt against larger characters like DK since the metal blade hits 3-4 times which is enough time to react and more consistently up tilt.

Down Smash however slides, and is the best kill/damage option at 60% until 110% and then that's when back air/up smash becomes the better option.

 

[Unix]

The best use is in perfect parry.

How to? Press very fast, Shield, Down, Attack (Not combined)

If your perfect shield get hit, A Flame Blast will occur.

Else, your character will perform the dodge.


The Flame Blast is very powerful!

 

[Wreck33]

Still really situational since it all depends on what type of attack you perfect shield. Down smash is slow and can't punish that many perfect shielded attacks.

 

[Unix]

Still really situational since it all depends on what type of attack you perfect shield. Down smash is slow and can't punish that many perfect shielded attacks.

When is "perfect shield" parry attack is not slow. I'll prove it to you

(Press fast) >>

On hit: 3 frames perfect shield, 8 frames shield, 12 frames parry attack
On Whiff: 3 frames perfect shield, 3 frames vulnerability, 8 frames dodge.

On hit:

On whiff:

 

[CanadianMegaMan]

When is "perfect shield" parry attack is not slow. I'll prove it to you

(Press fast) >>

On hit: 3 frames perfect shield, 8 frames shield, 12 frames parry attack
On Whiff: 3 frames perfect shield, 3 frames vulnerability, 8 frames dodge.

I think what he's getting at is that multihit moves would still hit mega before he crouches to use d smash, or attacks coming from directly above would be in a blind spot to d smash and then you're stuck in d smash forever so they're probably going to punish you, or at least get away unscathed.

 

[Unix]

I think what he's getting at is that multihit moves would still hit mega before he crouches to use d smash, or attacks coming from directly above would be in a blind spot to d smash and then you're stuck in d smash forever so they're probably going to punish you, or at least get away unscathed.

No, in Crouching is easier to avoid air attacks and/or give the Slide attack (This is optional) But then gave Flame Blast.

I will show again. No crouch needed and not multihit move.

Not air attack demonstration:

 

[Wreck33]

ok I stand corrected. Great tech with a safety of having a spot dodge coming out if you don't perfect shield.

 

[CopShowGuy]

I'm terrible at option selects.

 

[Megamang]

While option selects are definitely something which can make Megaman stronger, and I encourage anyone who has a good grasp on their fundamentals already to start messing with them, those videos are slightly misleading because enemies don't run at shield like that. The kirby example is the most obvious, but most of those aerials can be carefully spaced to avoid the dsmash hit, and should be because that makes them safe in OOS situations, not just someone trying that option select.

that said, the Mario one is a good example of something that would happen in game, since Mario often relies on his extremely good frame data and buttons to just power over you in neutral, and he doesn't respect your shield as much as perhaps he should.

Again, good stuff to learn, but don't be surprised when your perfect shield dsmash misses a well spaced bair. That said, it can be game winning, so its a good thing to learn.

Perhaps another one nice for whiff punishing otherwise really safe moves would be powershield - Dtilt.

 

[Unix]

I would like to correct that the right way to make the Dodge OS with Down Smash is not necessarily Shield + Down + A Fast. I did this several times, but the easiest way is:

>(Dodge)+

Another easy way to Down Smash with Grab OS.

(Hold)+(Hold <=3 frames)+

 

[Mythzotick]

The "best" use of down smash is...

Spoiler

It's to not use it at all unless you want to look at how stunning the visuals of two twin flame pillars are as they are truly a sight to behold.

 

[CopShowGuy]

The "best" use of down smash is...

Spoiler

It's to not use it at all unless you want to look at how stunning the visuals of two twin flame pillars are as they are truly a sight to behold.

I pretty much only use dsmash at the end of a match to look awesome.

 

[Wreck33]

jablocks and confident roll punishes mostly. And sometimes when people are above me I up throw a metal blade to bait an air dodge into a down smash punish.

 

[Mega-Spider]

When ScAtt used Flame Blast during Pound I think it was, I was giddy as hell because it looked so amazing. However, that's all Flame Blast is really good for: style. Then again, it's also good for punishing a shield break, but that end lag... kinda makes it not worth throwing out.

 

[Unix]

I've practiced the Jab lock.

Something like you can see here.

 

[JustSomeScrub]

I've practiced the Jab lock.

Something like you can see here.

Lol I was literally just going to post about this.

After a jab charged downSmash seems optimal. It does more damage and knockback than up tilt (at least with no DI).

So yeah, even though Megaman players seem to prefer uptilt, charged Downsmash is better in this case.

The only downside is if you somehow mess up the timing and get a sourspot or miss completely having held the charge too long.

In other words , uptilt is a safer bet but downSmash is optimal. But if you know either will kill easily of course you should just go for uptilt.

For most characters this wouldn't matter as jab reset situations are so rare but Megaman has guaranteed setups into them (footstool stuff) so it can be very useful to know. Slight charged downsmash only kills a few percent earlier than up tilt but it could be the difference between a win and a loss if you really know your percentages.

 

[JustSomeScrub]

That downsmash option select seems like an awesome idea.

While option selects are definitely something which can make Megaman stronger, and I encourage anyone who has a good grasp on their fundamentals already to start messing with them, those videos are slightly misleading because enemies don't run at shield like that. The kirby example is the most obvious, but most of those aerials can be carefully spaced to avoid the dsmash hit, and should be because that makes them safe in OOS situations, not just someone trying that option select.

that said, the Mario one is a good example of something that would happen in game, since Mario often relies on his extremely good frame data and buttons to just power over you in neutral, and he doesn't respect your shield as much as perhaps he should.

Again, good stuff to learn, but don't be surprised when your perfect shield dsmash misses a well spaced bair. That said, it can be game winning, so its a good thing to learn.

Perhaps another one nice for whiff punishing otherwise really safe moves would be powershield - Dtilt.

That's true but if a Megaman player recognizes the opponent is going for aerials or something that are clearly within range of downSmash (either because the aerials themselves lack range or are poorly spaced) than this seems like an awesome punish.

After all even non-charged downsmash kills almost as early as uptilt.

Another thing to watch out for is multiple hitting aerials, it probably won't work on those.

This is pretty much a kill confirm. If they touch your shield with the wrong move they die, if not or if you timed it too early you just spot dodge. And spot dodges aren't nearly as punishable. To punish it at all they'd have to be expecting it.

It's a good thing this kind of tech isn't popular, I doubt even high level players could figure out what is going on and try to exploit this during the course of the match.

And yes perfect shield to downtilt OOS using this tech to punish otherwise safe moves, mainly spaced aerials on shield also seems like a good idea.

 

[Klopsiak]

Aside from the obvious ones(Rest punish,Shield Break or "Jab" Lock),the only optimal option for me is when i Z-Drop the MB,opponent gets hit,and then combo it into D-Smash.
On certain percentages it's a kill confirm,i'm not that good to do Z-Drop-> Footstool->Jab lock,so it's better for me...

 

[Tino]

There's not really much use for his down smash (Flame Blast) except for punishing rolls, of course. But if I ever made a successful shield break or if a Jigglypuff fails a Rest at the end of a match, that's when I'll go full charge with it and...BOOM!

I've never done a jab lock before though.

 

[Wreck33]

There are 2 good guranteed scenarios that happens all the time witch make use of down smash.

vs pit/dark pit, block side B, punish with down smash.

vs Ness block PKF physical version, punish with down smash.

 

[Mythzotick]

Yeah. Why even bother with flame blast when mega upper is literally 10x better. Like everyone else has said, you should only really use it when you know for sure you'll get the kill with it on a shield break and it's at a certain percentage where a fully charged flame blast will kill and mega upper won't. It isn't even that good of a roll punish option.

I find it funny that Mega Man has two flame attacks and both of them have a lot of flaws to where you begin to wonder if the creators even finished them as they both show off animations that clearly indicates that there should be some sort of hitbox at all points and yet there isn't. We might as well just call them illusion blast and illusion sword. lol

 

[Wreck33]

because you dont have time to reposition yourself after block and get the up tilt. This happens alot when you block these 2 attacks.

 

[Megamang]

Scatt showed us that the d-smash is the optimal punish for someone doing an un-invincible ledge regrab. Utilt clearly won't hit them there.


I also kinda like the sourspot hitboxes, even though most people talk about them like they are totally useless. Some frames in this game are too tight to consistently punish, but it is still worth trying. Neutral ledge stand -> shield has so few vulnerability frames that it often powershields between hits of usmash. You can attempt to d-smash this at higher damages, and if you are off by a few frames you at least protect yourself a tiny bit by sending them away with the sourspot. Better than nothing.


and fair isn't as bad as everyone thinks. Zoning characters just don't get amazing fairs, unless that fair itself is the strong zoning move (villager). Fair is decent. Not good, but not bad.

And no, don't respond to this with a paragraph explaining your troubles with fair.

 

[Wreck33]

Yo Megamang any photage of your Mega on youtube?

 

[Wreck33]

I get the feeling this move was put in the game mostly to be used when you latch a crash bomber on your opponent. It becomes safe then and protects you from getting restuck. In my experience I land this move the most on Fox, Mac and Sheik the faster chars being prone to want to restick it and think that will be free since they run so fast. Often they can be 3/4 stage away when you stick them and then you downsmash and they either get bodied or they avoided it but in that case you are safe.