Darkevilprice995
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2013
- Messages
- 45
Which character in Project M do you think has the best approach options and tools? What are those tools? Who has the worst approach game?
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Best in Class: Approaching
- Thread starter Darkevilprice995
- Start date
Fortress
Smash Master
Pit and Lucas are givens until they get the shaft in 3.5. Link's got a solid set of tools, as does Mario. Falco's pretty solid with SH lasers. Wolf's slow laser can give him a solid wall of sorts to approach behind, and Samus of course has the Colgate Special in that zAir of her's.
zair is nothing special for samus' approach.
that is, if the opponent isn't trying to get NoR4U.
that is, if the opponent isn't trying to get NoR4U.
Apoc
Smash Cadet
Mewtwo's TP hover into nair is imo the best way to approach. Due to the fact it's nearly instant and is difficult to punish. Also his nair has insane priority. That combined with a fair right after nearly always gets your opponent. Hence why he's top tier.
Leeroythuggin
Smash Rookie
Diddy has some great options with glide tossing bananas
Teleport nair>fair/grab. Not even a competition.
Other characters with good approaches, Falco, Diddy, Lucas, Pit, Mario as others have said.
Wolf's blaster shots can be destroyed by almost any aerial and the aerial will continue to go through them. If set up properly, it can be a decent approach, but it's not comparable to anyone's listed above.
Other characters with good approaches, Falco, Diddy, Lucas, Pit, Mario as others have said.
Wolf's blaster shots can be destroyed by almost any aerial and the aerial will continue to go through them. If set up properly, it can be a decent approach, but it's not comparable to anyone's listed above.
victinivcreate1
Banned via Warnings
Lol at everyone calling Mewtwo's approach free. Are we forgetting Sonic?
THAT is an ever freer approach, and by a significant amount.
Anyway
S Tier
Sonic's Down B-10
Mewtwo's Teleport Hover Aerial-8.5
Mario's Fireballs into aimed aerials-8.0
A Tier
Falco SH Lasers-7.7
Link's Projectile Zone-7.5
Lucas SH PK Freeze-7.0
B
Fox's Nair Shine/Laser Camp-6.8
Wolf's Laser WL into aerial-6.4
Samus' Missile Cancelling-6.2
MK's nair-6.1
Pit's Arrows-6.0
C
Everything else-under 6
THAT is an ever freer approach, and by a significant amount.
Anyway
S Tier
Sonic's Down B-10
Mewtwo's Teleport Hover Aerial-8.5
Mario's Fireballs into aimed aerials-8.0
A Tier
Falco SH Lasers-7.7
Link's Projectile Zone-7.5
Lucas SH PK Freeze-7.0
B
Fox's Nair Shine/Laser Camp-6.8
Wolf's Laser WL into aerial-6.4
Samus' Missile Cancelling-6.2
MK's nair-6.1
Pit's Arrows-6.0
C
Everything else-under 6
Apoc
Smash Cadet
How's sonic approach better than mewtwo's? Just curious.
Fortress
Smash Master
I don't understand how you could possibly think that.
victinivcreate1
Banned via Warnings
Cuz its set range is significantly bigger than most stages. You can down b and cross entire stages and have room to spin back and forth with. Its also impossible to shield and then hit spin with an OoS option, even if you try doing a bair OoS.
Mewtwo's is less free because the off chance that it doesn't poke, you're getting OoS'd. Its happened before too. AT SKTAR Pro was able to Cypher OoS and hit Emukiller.
Also Mewtwo's requires like 5 inputs (up, b, direction, hover, aerial). Sonic's requires two button and forward or back.
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Apoc
Smash Cadet
It's crazy how you can just memorize those 5 inputs, i can do the Hover nair OoT 9/10 times now w/o even thinking of it. Makes me think of the o'l SC2 days. Muscle Memory is an interesting thing.
Ya Boy GP
Smash Apprentice
Lucas/Mewtwo/Diddy/Mario/Fox/Falco.
No one else has very good approaches besides those characters. Some characters have decent ones, but not on the level that these characters do.
No one else has very good approaches besides those characters. Some characters have decent ones, but not on the level that these characters do.
If they block, it does nothing for you.
They're either too far, and blocking becomes neutral.
or too close, and blocking it means their oos option beats the zair.
It doesn't work as an approach. it works as a spacer.
If you hit with the tip, it knocks them back, and you're a whole length of zair + that hit away from them = not an approach. But perfect to start missiling.
If you hit with the weak you can maybe get in before they are able to act, but it's tight. and usually not worth approaching if thats the case, better to space.
i hear samus' bombs defeat spindash.
havent had a uber sonic to test on though
havent had a uber sonic to test on though
Apoc
Smash Cadet
all you have to do as mewtwo to stuff the spin dash is simply to just d-tilt mixed in with wavedashing forward and back. At least in this case I feel sonic doesn't have a decent way at all to come at mewtwo w/o being being punished.
Fortress
Smash Master
You have obviously never played against a very good Samus. You could stand to watch some videos of Washington's Chevy, who's probably the second-best PM Samus currently, under Esam.
Agreed. Link's bombs stop it, Link's 'rang stops it, Link's zAir stops it, Link's disjoint stops it... hell, even Link's nAir stops it. My off-and-on-again roommate is arguably the top Sonic in the northwest region, and the first thing I got walked through is that Sonic's dSpecial doesn't let him spin forever, he does have to stop eventually, usually safer with a jump before he slides out of it. Spin Dash isn't as great an approach as people think, especially when half the cast possess swords that can beat it out.
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No, i haven't. I very rarely get the chance to play against many 'very good' players.
My opinion on the matter is what I've concluded from my own use of Zair as Samus. Which i find much more useful as as spacing tool, a long range harassment that can't be reflected, and as a projectile 'buster'.
I find it rather ineffective as an approach, at least to the levels hinted in this topic, due to the reasons i mentioned earlier.
If you have any points that aren't just cast off 'you don't play anyone skilled, try watching some vids' and actually discuss the properties and merits of the move, i'd love to hear them.
I'll look out for it more next time i watch chevy's vids. and i'll compare the times he uses it to approach vs the times using it to space/ poke/ and defend against items.
also:
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Fortress
Smash Master
You already answered why it's a terrifying option though; leads right into missiles, which are Samus's go-to approach option. Thought that was obvious enough that you shouldn't have to have it pointed out. The move reaches nearly half the distance of Battlefield, effectively keeps players a huge distance away from Samus, and is pretty much guaranteed on aerial opponents. Two pokes to shove them off the stage, and then wall them out with missiles. zAir's a solid enough approach and a strong anti-air option.
When you've got a poke that can reach half the length of most tourney-standard stages that is fast enough to allow you to shove your opponent off of the stage from a safe distance, then I don't see how it can't be considered a bad approach option.
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so yea. Spacing tool.
Fortress
Smash Master
And these aren't approaching tools all of a sudden? Spacing is in itself a huge element of approaching your opponent.
spacing them away from you is an approach to you?
i can see why we are confused.
i can see why we are confused.
Fortress
Smash Master
Spacing =/= keep away or zoning, I don't see how you possibly understand it as being that. You need correct spacing for pretty much everything, whether it's attacking, zoning, approaching, or punishing. You don't only space when you play keep away.
Who's confused?
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ah, my mistake, i mean its a zoning tool. not an approach then.
the original point was that it only works it the opponent cant shield. and that's what you replied 'i cant understand how you believe that' to
so, what i want from you is your explanation on how it's actually good vs shield.
the original point was that it only works it the opponent cant shield. and that's what you replied 'i cant understand how you believe that' to
so, what i want from you is your explanation on how it's actually good vs shield.
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Forcing an opponent into shield whenever you want is never a bad thing. Against a shield it doesn't specifically have any glaring benefits. Alternatively, it can slow down an approaching opponent and completely turn the tables, putting them in a defensive position and allowing you to control the flow of the battlefield and approach as you see fit.
Exactly.
not an approach on an opponent that can shield. (the landing lag is too great. use it vs a shield, and you get punished)
infinitely useful in other ways.
not an approach on an opponent that can shield. (the landing lag is too great. use it vs a shield, and you get punished)
infinitely useful in other ways.
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It has almost zero landing lag.
victinivcreate1
Banned via Warnings
Who won lol
Plz tell me how Spin Dash is not broken tho. I hope to expose all teh sawnik mainz. I main MK and yeah I know just spam SHFFL nair in place when he spins, but when Sonic's start respecting that (and especially if he's respecting that AND he already has a decent lead on you), the MU gets significantly more difficult.
Wizzy more or less spams Spin Dash freely. When he doesn't, he still does alright.
PsionicSabreur
Smash Journeyman
Pretty sure all zairs have 10 frames of landing lag, same as a waveland.
Leafeon
Verdant Pokémon
Lol OoT will forever mean "Ocarina of Time" to me.
I think I pretty much agree with everything on this list except for sonic o-o;
Taking like 6-7% damage from his roll in order to grab him and deal a minimum 8% back with one pummel and put you in a good position doesn't seem so bad to me tbh. (In regards to grab invincibility.) The timing is easy, at least for my character, so long as I'm not standing directly next to him. Especially easy with any tether grabs, and projectiles/traps work rather well in disrupting the more lengthy approaches... and most lingering hitboxes beat it out. I definitely feel like the amount of time I have to react to sonic's approach as opposed to mewtwo's makes his less free than you think.
He did. One stock both games. It was a fun set.
Watch Wizzy play Gurukid if you want to see how to win the MU.
victinivcreate1
Banned via Warnings
I'm pretty sure Mewtwo's TP Hover Aerial at the minimum comes out on frame 33 if frame perfect (5 frame jump squat+23 frame TP+5 frame nair/fair which is 33 frames in total).
Mewtwo's is wayy slower. Considering he first has to get in range of the TP Hover aerial.
Leafeon
Verdant Pokémon
And how many frames did you count of Sonic's actual travel time?