Beefy Smash Doods: How to Mash Quickly!

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With shield being buffed in Smash 4, grabs may just be more powerful than ever. Many of the cast have easy combos and setups from grabs as well as kill throws. Besides from avoiding being grabbed, mashing is the best way to avoid a potential combo or kill. Mashing also helps with escaping out of shield breaks and the buried state. That's why Beefy Smash Doods is here to show the most effective way to mash!

 

Can you show me evidence of this? Because according to this http://smashboards.com/threads/shields-in-smash-4.381183 and everything else I've seen there is less shield stun then in Brawl. I do agree shields are weaker in the whole stupid "I'm just going to stand here and hold shield because I can" aspect from Brawl but just the sheer lack of safety moves have on shield in Smash 4 makes it a more powerful (if less universal) option then in Brawl in my opinion.

http://smashboards.com/threads/mechanics-techniques-discussion.368206/page-40
And as far as I can remember, sheild regen is the slowest it has ever been.

 

Can you show me evidence of this? Because according to this http://smashboards.com/threads/shields-in-smash-4.381183 and everything else I've seen there is less shield stun then in Brawl. I do agree shields are weaker in the whole stupid "I'm just going to stand here and hold shield because I can" aspect from Brawl but just the sheer lack of safety moves have on shield in Smash 4 makes it a more powerful (if less universal) option then in Brawl in my opinion.

http://smashboards.com/threads/mechanics-techniques-discussion.368206/page-40

This page reading down.

The data you quoted I don't think is accurate anymore.

That said I don't agree, the cast as a whole is safer on block than in Brawl and I do think it is noticeably so.

 

http://smashboards.com/threads/mechanics-techniques-discussion.368206/page-40

This page reading down.

The data you quoted I don't think is accurate anymore.

That said I don't agree, the cast as a whole is safer on block than in Brawl and I do think it is noticeably so.

Okay if that's true then shields were definitely weakened in the transition to Smash 4. Where did the old data come from then? Because I saw multiple sources say that there was less shield stun in Smash 4 then there was in Brawl earlier on.

That being said though, I still think shield is the strongest defensive option in Smash 4. Yes shield brakes have gone from more or less impossible to very unlikely, but the fact that the majority of the shield braking moves are either unsafe on shield, laggy, or huge commitments means you need to put a lot of pressure on someone's shield without giving them a chance to regenerate it. And when you consider moves are still not that much safer on shield (only stronger hits benefit notably from the change) and how good rolls are at reliving pressure that situation doesn't come up very often. So as long as you don't get baited into dropping shield from something like an empty hop it's still a very strong option.

Thank you actually for correcting me, now I know. (And knowing's half the battle)

 

E Eureka What if the double jump was wasted trying to recover back to the stage? What if the opponent does a edge get-up attack? What if the opponent uses a move with extremely high end lag against U-Tilt? What if the opponent can't roll out of the way?

And most important question...

How would you know if U-Tilt won't end up hitting the opponent from behind Ganondorf? (It's happened to many of my opponents before, too.)

 

E Eureka What if the double jump was wasted trying to recover back to the stage?

Then they either go to the ledge or hit you with an aerial or just land and hit you.

What if the opponent does a edge get-up attack?

Then they're either blind, ignorant, or stupid. Why would anyone get up attack against an up tilting Ganondorf?

What if the opponent uses a move with extremely high end lag against U-Tilt?

If someone whiffs a move with enough end lag to get hit by an up tilting Ganondorf then they deserve to get hit. There is literally no reason to miss when he's standing still.

What if the opponent can't roll out of the way?

Why can't they? It's literally just holding shield and tapping a direction. And there's also the alternative of simply hitting the Ganondorf who's just standing there.

And most important question...

How would you know if U-Tilt won't end up hitting the opponent from behind Ganondorf? (It's happened to many of my opponents before, too.)

It's called spacing. It makes you not get hit by stupid things like that.

 

Then they either go to the ledge or hit you with an aerial or just land and hit you.

Then they're either blind, ignorant, or stupid. Why would anyone get up attack against an up tilting Ganondorf?

If someone whiffs a move with enough end lag to get hit by an up tilting Ganondorf then they deserve to get hit.

There is literally no reason to miss when he's standing still.

Why can't they? It's literally just holding shield and tapping a direction.

And there's also the alternative of simply hitting the Ganondorf who's just standing there.

It's called spacing. It makes you not get hit by stupid things like that.

There's a scenario where they can't manage to land an attack on Ganondorf if he's too far from them and they ignore the ledge. Even if they get to the ledge, there's the possibility his sourspot will hit them.

Link, maybe?

No argument on that.

Some characters might not make it out in time and could get hit by the sourspot hitbox still (and might I add that that sucker has some incredible range?).

The alternate might be a laggy enough attack with some characters for them to get hit.

Sometimes spacing goes horribly wrong or horrifyingly right. Case in point, Warlock Punch hitting Pit from behind Ganondorf (my Ganondorf) and being OHKO'd. Same thing happened with ZSS, but that was when she got hit literally in mid-air. Another thing happened with Ganondorf's F-Tilt hitting an opponent from behind Ganondorf, and Link's Dash Attack sending someone backward, and a lot more examples of just pitiful spacing with opponents. You got to love memory, right?

 

There's a scenario where they can't manage to land an attack on Ganondorf if he's too far from them and they ignore the ledge. Even if they get to the ledge, there's the possibility his sourspot will hit them.

Link, maybe?

No argument on that.

Some characters might not make it out in time and could get hit by the sourspot hitbox still (and might I add that that sucker has some incredible range?).

The alternate might be a laggy enough attack with some characters for them to get hit.

Sometimes spacing goes horribly wrong or horrifyingly right. Case in point, Warlock Punch hitting Pit from behind Ganondorf (my Ganondorf) and being OHKO'd. Same thing happened with ZSS, but that was when she got hit literally in mid-air. Another thing happened with Ganondorf's F-Tilt hitting an opponent from behind Ganondorf, and Link's Dash Attack sending someone backward, and a lot more examples of just pitiful spacing with opponents. You got to love memory, right?

Ganondorf's up tilt has 81 frames of startup. If you can not manage to either hit Ganondorf or pick a proper defensive option in 81 frames then you simply should not be playing the game without items on.

Are you within range of the up tilt? Cool, punch Ganondorf in the face. Not in range? Wait out the up tilt and punish the also huge ending lag. Recovering to the stage? Either just hit him or go to the ledge, depending how much time is left until the boot drops. The only reason anyone should get hit by the move is if someone screwed up to an absolutely incredible degree.

Also, spacing doesn't just go wrong. If you get hit by up tilt while trying to space it you simply didn't space correctly.

 

Ganon's U-tilt has whooping one and a third second of startup. No move is THAT laggy to be punished by that unless Ike or D3 are literally charging their F-smashes right in front of you.

If there's a job where it does decently in, it's edgeguarding. But breaking shields is never, ever be the job Ganon's U-tilt does well unless your opponent knows nothing about the move. Maybe a patch can help, but no, for now a move with 81 frames of startup ain't gonna do squat in real competitive play. Warlock Punch at least has super armor and faster startup (Hillariously), U-tilt got a vacuum effect and that's it. An U-tilt can be interrupted by a random Falco's Blaster or Sheik's needles, Warlock Punch does not (And sometimes if you read a poorly executed move (Bowser Bomb), you can tank through the move and punch them afterwards, something U-tilt can only hope to achieve).

I get it Ganon can mix up his game and use U-tilt in a position people may not expect, but it's simply not consistent enough. It can be interrupted by basically anything (Bar non-flinching moves) and no move is laggy enough to be punished by that (I can only think Luigi's whiffed SJP and D3's cancelled SD3J (When near the ground) landing lag).

 

Okay if that's true then shields were definitely weakened in the transition to Smash 4. Where did the old data come from then? Because I saw multiple sources say that there was less shield stun in Smash 4 then there was in Brawl earlier on.

That being said though, I still think shield is the strongest defensive option in Smash 4. Yes shield brakes have gone from more or less impossible to very unlikely, but the fact that the majority of the shield braking moves are either unsafe on shield, laggy, or huge commitments means you need to put a lot of pressure on someone's shield without giving them a chance to regenerate it. And when you consider moves are still not that much safer on shield (only stronger hits benefit notably from the change) and how good rolls are at reliving pressure that situation doesn't come up very often. So as long as you don't get baited into dropping shield from something like an empty hop it's still a very strong option.

Thank you actually for correcting me, now I know. (And knowing's half the battle)

Methods of testing change, thinks we learned change as a result.

 

E Eureka
I was referring to its deceptive range on the explosion part, which itself does linger for a little bit and is very deceptive as well on that.

 

As well informed this video is, smart people will simply just not bother letting people mash out of their grabs, buries, or anything they can mash out of.