Bayonetta Nerf - this was all intentional?

[Zoom!]

Not trying to sound big headed but I saw this nerf coming a mile off, and I'm sure a lot of other logical thinkers did too. My reasoning is quite simple really:

Nintendo did this all on purpose.

I don't see how people don't see it? People can't actually think she was made that OP by accident? That she was added to the game only for Nintendo to suddenly realise "oh man, we f'd up hard, guize".

No. She was made broken on purpose. Nintendo ensured she would cause as much hype, controversy and attention as possible. Why? Because max hype = max sales. It's as simple as that. They've now made their money so no need to leave her broken.

Now, one could argue that they went too far with the nerfs. I'm seeing a lot of Bayonetta players complaining that their character is ruined. What I want to ask them is this: why are you reacting as if there is some kind of inherent obligation for Bayonetta to be good? Because she's DLC? Because you paid money? Because she was fan voted in? No. Nintendo allowed fans to vote for a character. They added said character. Good or bad she's in the game. End of story!

There's nothing left to complain about? Wanna talk about balance? She wasn't balanced to begin with. Wanna talk about fair? Talk to Meta Knight mains. Talk to players who main characters that were never good to begin with. If they can crack on then so can you. When she was OP your defence was that "people should just learn the match up". Well allow me to return the same logic to you. Learn the new match ups

 

[Frihetsanka]

People can't actually think she was made that OP by accident?

Why not? Brawl Meta Knight almost certainly was, so why not Bayonetta? They wanted to make a combo-based character and went a little too far, nothing strange about that.

Isn't it a bit strange that most other DLC characters weren't OP on release? Mewtwo and Roy certainly weren't (Mewtwo even got some nice buffs later). Your conjecture is interesting, but right now it's pretty much a conspiracy theory without any solid evidence at all. So no, I don't think they released Bayonetta OP on purpose.

 

[lui3k]

word.... those are the same ppl who cried when diddy was broken, then they moved on to complain about sheik, but no when they play bayo? its fair just learn to smash DI they say lol.... glad this is over with and they can complain all they want

 

[jcx]

Why not? Brawl Meta Knight almost certainly was, so why not Bayonetta? They wanted to make a combo-based character and went a little too far, nothing strange about that.

Isn't it a bit strange that most other DLC characters weren't OP on release? Mewtwo and Roy certainly weren't (Mewtwo even got some nice buffs later). Your conjecture is interesting, but right now it's pretty much a conspiracy theory without any solid evidence at all. So no, I don't think they released Bayonetta OP on purpose.

is still combo-oriented (or at least that's what Nintendo tried to maintain) but many of her combos are mix-ups now. And her 0-deaths were completely removed. But easy 0-deaths have been something Nintendo doesn't want in the game- for example, 's zero-to-death became much more difficult to perform when his uair launch angle was nerfed. Same thing with inescapable kill confirms such as prepatch 's rising cyclone.

They even tried to prevent stuff like that in previous games- in Brawl, got stripped of wobbling (although they DID get the crazy chaingrabs, which were definitely unintentional as well. And they removed chaingrabbing as a whole in Smash 4, so the ICs would have been nerfed further if they made it to the new game.). And even further back, in PAL Melee, lost her dthrow chaingrab that she could use on half the cast.

 

[cwjakesteel]

Completely agree with OP. It's the same thing with Corrin and her broken counter. Nintendo deliberately turned up the stats for the two new DLC characters to gain as much attention as possible, but not just for smash, but for the characters' games too.

Nintendo re-released Bayonetta at about the same time the DLC character was released, and Corrin's presence was an obvious advertisement for Fire Emblem Fates.

Bayonetta was designed to decimate the competition, and later Nintendo winded her down.

However, you also have to remember that Nintendo tries to make the characters in Smash as "true to life" as possible. Meaning they are just like how they appear in their own games, and match their in-game personalities. I've never played a bayonetta game before (stupid Wii U only having 32 GB. I would have bought it otherwise), but Bayo may have been an OP combo machine in her own games, so it would make sense for Nintendo to try and capture that aspect of her.

It's like if Spider-man was put into smash bros. He simply wouldn't fit in because he'd be OP simply because he's Spider-man. If Spider-man were balanced in a way that a smash character could fight on par with him, then he wouldn't be spider-man. Same thing with bayo.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

"Nintendo did this all on purpose."

Nintendo

Yeah, no lol.

 

[jcx]

"Nintendo did this all on purpose."

Nintendo

Yeah, no lol.

If necroposting were allowed, I would put just that quote. You make a great point there bud.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

If necroposting were allowed, I would put just that quote. You make a great point there bud.

I do especially sice Nintendo has nothing to do with the balance of Smash 4

 

[Matt11111]

"Nintendo did this all on purpose."

Nintendo

Yeah, no lol.

Well yeah, they thought Samus was the best character in Smash 4 when they were developing the game.

 

[Zoom!]

I do especially sice Nintendo has nothing to do with the balance of Smash 4

Meh. I knew somebody would feel the need to call that out. Doesn't really have any impact on the theories/points made but thanks for the input.

 

[jcx]

Meh. I knew somebody would feel the need to call that out. Doesn't really have any impact on the theories/points made but thanks for the input.

Oh, even I forgot that Nintendo's just the publisher! Sora and Namco are the people to blame.

But yeah, the OP's claims are too ridiculous. It doesn't f***ing matter if it's Nintendo, Sora, or Namco, or any company for that matter.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Meh. I knew somebody would feel the need to call that out. Doesn't really have any impact on the theories/points made but thanks for the input.

It does actually, since it makes them all the more less plausible than they were in the first place.

Do people seriously think Nintendo decided to call up Sakurai and the balancing team (Namco) and say "Oh yeah, could you do this, this and this for the sake of advertising and potentially damaging the game in the process? K thnx mang."

Nintendo and Sora are two companies that are separate from each other, with the latter (along with Namco) being in charge of the development of the game. Note the words "in charge." Meaning they can screw around the balance all they want without listening to anyone.

And going off by the logic of Corrin and Bayo being OP to advertise their respective games, why didn't Nintendo call up Sora/Namco and tell them to make Link, Zelda and Ganondorf OP af for the release of TPHD?

And don't give me some stupid reasoning like "because its a re-release and they didn't think it was important."

 

[Astrofallz]

Not trying to sound big headed but I saw this nerf coming a mile off, and I'm sure a lot of other logical thinkers did too. My reasoning is quite simple really:

Nintendo did this all on purpose.

I don't see how people don't see it? People can't actually think she was made that OP by accident? That she was added to the game only for Nintendo to suddenly realise "oh man, we f'd up hard, guize".

No. She was made broken on purpose. Nintendo ensured she would cause as much hype, controversy and attention as possible. Why? Because max hype = max sales. It's as simple as that. They've now made their money so no need to leave her broken.

Now, one could argue that they went too far with the nerfs. I'm seeing a lot of Bayonetta players complaining that their character is ruined. What I want to ask them is this: why are you reacting as if there is some kind of inherent obligation for Bayonetta to be good? Because she's DLC? Because you paid money? Because she was fan voted in? No. Nintendo allowed fans to vote for a character. They added said character. Good or bad she's in the game. End of story!

There's nothing left to complain about? Wanna talk about balance? She wasn't balanced to begin with. Wanna talk about fair? Talk to Meta Knight mains. Talk to players who main characters that were never good to begin with. If they can crack on then so can you. When she was OP your defence was that "people should just learn the match up". Well allow me to return the same logic to you. Learn the new match ups

1. Who cares if it was on purpose or not? If it was, this kind of practice is not okay. Even dangerously lingering near the line of false advertisement. I'm not disagreeing with you but in the discussion of balance patch it means absolutely nothing. At best, it is a bad explanation for why that honestly doesn't matter when it comes to moving the Bayonetta meta forward.

2. There is not inherent obligation for Bayo to be good however, that's the entire point of a balance patch. Perfect balance will never be achieved, especially with a roster of this size but balance patches are meant to bring the effectiveness of each character closer and fix any unintended things. So no that's not the end of the story.

3. There isn't a single character in Smash 4 history except maybe Greninja that was hit as hard as Bayo. Everybody is so quick to bring up other characters that were nerfed but what they fail to understand is that those characters play styles were left intact. It is not the Bayo players fault that MK mains relied on comboing up air to up b, he was more than that one gimmick but it worked so MK players only focused on that. By "from scratch" for MK mains, it was just a manner of not depending one gimmic . Bayo is straight up not the same character. Her gimmick AND her tools(ability to combo with special moves) were removed. The level of "adaption" necessary as compared to the other nerf characters is way more because Bayo players are learning an entirely different character. I'm not saying that 0-deaths were okay because they were not and needed to be removed. However, straight up trying to remove the combos from a "combo heavy" character is uncalled for and bs.

TL:DR
Bayo players can call bs on this patch because the character fails to fill the niche that she was advertised to fill. A combo heavy character that stays faithful to the source material.

Just because she had op tools does give the balance team the ok to be lazy and not care about the end product.

No character who has been nerfed up to this point had their playstyle changed. MK mains didn't have to start from scratch they had to learn to not rely on a gimmick. Bayo mains are actually starting from scratch because they are learning an entirely different character. Stop comparing the two.

 

[Zoom!]

It does actually, since it makes them all the more less plausible than they were in the first place.

Do people seriously think Nintendo decided to call up Sakurai and the balancing team (Namco) and say "Oh yeah, could you do this, this and this for the sake of advertising and potentially damaging the game in the process? K thnx mang."

Nintendo and Sora are two companies that are separate from each other, with the latter (along with Namco) being in charge of the development of the game. Note the words "in charge." Meaning they can screw around the balance all they want without listening to anyone.

And going off by the logic of Corrin and Bayo being OP to advertise their respective games, why didn't Nintendo call up Sora/Namco and tell them to make Link, Zelda and Ganondorf OP af for the release of TPHD?

And don't give me some stupid reasoning like "because its a re-release and they didn't think it was important."

Well excuse me for not knowing or taking the time to research specifically which team does what. It's interesting that's the detail you homed in on, and I'm glad you've now decided to expand on your thoughts regardless. Thanks.

Please remember that you have as much evidence of that not happening as I do of it taking place. I'm not trying to bring people's attention to whose decision it was or how it happened. However it's perfectly conceivable that whicever team decided how good Bayonetta needed to be on release was the same team whose paycheck was contingent upon the revenue brought in by her. With that in mind, I don't see any reason why they wouldn't maximise sales by any means necessary. You speak so dismissively about advertisement as if it's a minor detail to a company such as Nintendo, when in fact it's everything. Why do you think they hand out free copies of new games to YouTubers? For that matter, how well do you think Nintendo are doing right now? Also I'd like to hear more on your point regarding how making Bayonetta OP could risk damaging the game, when adding a character isnt exactly an irrevocable process, as we've just witnessed.

Thanks but there's a reason I didn't research that myself. See above.

Doing that would be a little transparent. Nintendo are desperate, not stupid. It's an interesting approach you're taking, however just because they're not doing it for every character doesn't mean they didn't do it for Bayo & Corrin

 

[Conn1496]

I think a point people are failing to bring up is that Bayo was a character voted in by players. I think the people balancing her just didn't want her to disappoint and be underpowered *cough* Mewtwo got buffed *cough*.

-and with Cloud being such a fan favourite, and a strong one at that, people must have flocked to buy him. They probably wanted the same to happen with Bayo, which is totally fine IMO. They're a company after all. Having money in mind isn't out of the norm.

What isn't fine is that there are people actively dropping or regretting buying Bayo because she was hit so hard. Something people bring up a lot is that she had bad tournament results, so "nerfing her this hard wasn't totally fair", which even if it were true, could have easily just been down to bad players.

Bayo was blatantly strong, and it was pretty obvious that Bayo's risk/reward was not in line with other characters, especially post ZSS/MK nerf (Bayo was basically the only ladder combo killer in the game.), another thing that was not fine and the balance team were not okay to do. They just rectified that in 1.1.6 to me.

It's a kind of unfortunate situation, and nothing more, IMO... I still think Bayo is an incredibly strong contender with a combo playstyle (Compare her to all other characters, and her combos still rack up far more pressure and damage in my eyes. One wrong move? Whoops, see you at 40+%.), in the same way I think people overreacted at Sheik's nerfs and MK's nerfs (I don't bring up ZSS because ZSS still has a lot of faithful players post nerf.). The difference is, people are going to have to relearn certain habits or stop relying on Bayo's auto-combos. -and Bayo's opponents still have to learn how to Smash DI her, it's not "all hope is lost" for her, by far.

As a final point, Smash as a game was never meant to be combo orientated in my eyes. It's a sad fact, but it just seems that way. Combos exist, sure, but the game's balance attitude towards combos was seemingly never thought of (Hoo hah, anyone?), which is why these balance patches had to hit them so hard, and moreso why Bayo, a combo character took the brute of it when it was her turn.

Just my two cents, anyway.

 

[Zoom!]

1. Who cares if it was on purpose or not? If it was, this kind of practice is not okay. Even dangerously lingering near the line of false advertisement. I'm not disagreeing with you but in the discussion of balance patch it means absolutely nothing. At best, it is a bad explanation for why that honestly doesn't matter when it comes to moving the Bayonetta meta forward.

2. There is not inherent obligation for Bayo to be good however, that's the entire point of a balance patch. Perfect balance will never be achieved, especially with a roster of this size but balance patches are meant to bring the effectiveness of each character closer and fix any unintended things. So no that's not the end of the story.

3. There isn't a single character in Smash 4 history except maybe Greninja that was hit as hard as Bayo. Everybody is so quick to bring up other characters that were nerfed but what they fail to understand is that those characters play styles were left intact. It is not the Bayo players fault that MK mains relied on comboing up air to up b, he was more than that one gimmick but it worked so MK players only focused on that. By "from scratch" for MK mains, it was just a manner of not depending one gimmic . Bayo is straight up not the same character. Her gimmick AND her tools(ability to combo with special moves) were removed. The level of "adaption" necessary as compared to the other nerf characters is way more because Bayo players are learning an entirely different character. I'm not saying that 0-deaths were okay because they were not and needed to be removed. However, straight up trying to remove the combos from a "combo heavy" character is uncalled for and bs.

TL:DR
Bayo players can call bs on this patch because the character fails to fill the niche that she was advertised to fill. A combo heavy character that stays faithful to the source material.

Just because she had op tools does give the balance team the ok to be lazy and not care about the end product.

No character who has been nerfed up to this point had their playstyle changed. MK mains didn't have to start from scratch they had to learn to not rely on a gimmick. Bayo mains are actually starting from scratch because they are learning an entirely different character. Stop comparing the two.

Lol well yeah, it's not okay, but as I've been saying, money > fans. To give an example: the 1.1.4 update to smash exceeded the memory capabilities of the 8gb Wii U, meaning that in order to continue playing Smash, people had to go out and buy an external hard drive. Can you please take a step back and realise how monumentally embarrassing that is for Nintendo? But do you know what they did about it? Nothing. They didn't warn people the update would be too large, they provided no heads up of any kind, after people discovered the issue for themselves and complained to Nintendo they literally said "sorry, we didn't forsee this happening". I doubt Nintendo, Namco or whoever is above making a character OP for a few extra bucks.

No that's what you want them to be.

There isn't a single character in Smash history that was as OP as Bayonetta, however the last part was a good point.

I'm seeing a lot of upset Bayonetta players using the phrase "source material". Coughcough. While we're at it, I'm a main. I'm an electric type. I should therefore have a type advantage against so my moves should do more damage. Or actually my main is from a turn-based RPG so I should hit you first because I have higher speed stats and then I should politely wait until you've hit me back before making my next move.

Source material

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

However it's perfectly conceivable that whicever team decided how good Bayonetta needed to be on release was the same team whose paycheck was contingent upon the revenue brought in by her. With that in mind, I don't see any reason why they wouldn't maximise sales by any means necessary.

If the devs paychecks were strictly dependent on how good the sales were for Bayonetta, then they would balance her closer to what her current state in 1.1.6 is rather than releasing her as they did. Why would that be the case? Because people already had refused to buy Bayonetta on the grounds they either don't like the character or their favourite character didn't get in, I don't think people spreading info on how stupidly unbalanced and toxic she is to the game's meta and balance would help the dev's pay checks either.

You speak so dismissively about advertisement as if it's a minor detail to a company such as Nintendo, when in fact it's everything. Why do you think they hand out free copies of new games to YouTubers? For that matter, how well do you think Nintendo are doing right now?

I know advertisement plays a big part in things like this. And since it does, Nintendo should have asked Namco to make Link, Zelda and Ganondorf OP to bring attention to those characters and maybe even bring in more sales for TPHD.

Except that never happened, because Sakurai and his dev team designed the game to be the way it is, i.e Ganondorf and extremely hard hitting character, but being slow both on the ground and in the air w/ decently large amount of end/ landing lag.

Also I'd like to hear more on your point regarding how making Bayonetta OP could risk damaging the game, when adding a character isnt exactly an irrevocable process, as we've just witnessed.

People have stopped play Smash 4 over Bayonetta. People have hated and have talked **** about people who play Bayonetta because of how unbalanced she is and how her 0-death's are toxic to the game. If things like that are going to happen because of how toxic a character is to the game and its meta, then something had to be done at some point.

Lol well yeah, it's not okay, but as I've been saying, money > fans. To give an example: the 1.1.4 update to smash exceeded the memory capabilities of the 8gb Wii U, meaning that in order to continue playing Smash, people had to go out and buy an external hard drive.

How big was the 1.1.4 update???

There isn't a single character in Smash history that was as OP as Bayonetta, however the last part was a good point.

I'm seeing a lot of upset Bayonetta players using the phrase "source material". Coughcough. While we're at it, I'm a main. I'm an electric type. I should therefore have a type advantage against so my moves should do more damage. Or actually my main is from a turn-based RPG so I should hit you first because I have higher speed stats and then I should politely wait until you've hit me back before making my next move.

Source material

The idea of source material means getting a character to be as close to the game they were in before smash as much as Sakurai and the dev team can (there are a few exceptions of course); on another note, 'Source Material' for characters doesn't strictly refer to gameplay elements. In fact when someone says that a character is close to their source material, it could mean design wise like when Bayonetta jumps she has those butterfly wings, or her smash attacks in general.


In this case, you are directly comparing a character () that exists across two entirely different video game genres (RPG and Fighting) which is stupid because the stuff you described (from an rpg) isn't going to translate well to a fighting game. The point of a fighting game is to beat up your opponent, not let each other take turns at hitting each other like an RPG.

Things like Pikachu having special attacks pulled from the Pokemon games, the iconic voice and his overall design means he is pretty faithful to his source material.

Stupid comparisons /s

 

[blackghost]

ther eis no evidence to support this being done on purpose. it sounds ridiculous and why then were mewtwo,roy, and lucas all below average? every dlc character wasn't amazing. almost every combo character is good and bayo was simply the best combo character.

 

[jcx]

This is getting ridiculous. The OP's original argument sounds like a conspiracy theory or propaganda about scams when read aloud (although he's probably just expressing his thoughts on the matter like most people would). Additionally, when people make sufficient counterarguments, he tries to address them with worse logical progression. But that doesn't matter in the end, because this topic is not worth butting heads over anymore. Suck it up and enjoy the game the way it is now, or, IDK, just abandon Smash 4 because the image in the spoiler is plaguing your mind.

Spoiler

EDIT: Conn1496 has successfully ended rant

 

[TurboLink]

"Nintendo did this all on purpose."

Nintendo

Yeah, no lol.

Why not? Nintendo is a business, is it not?

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Why not? Nintendo is a business, is it not?

Except Nintendo publishes the game.

Sora/Namco do the game developing/ balancing.

 

[Conn1496]

Except Nintendo publishes the game.

Sora/Namco do the game developing/ balancing.

They still probably get a cut from the game's sales including DLC, the point still kinda stands.



Honestly, I just feel this thread's kinda devolved into bickering and speculation (In in an extreme wording, conspiracy theorising.) more than any real thought on the issue... Most people seemed to skim totally over my earlier points to dart at whoever was the current "opponent" to their ideas. *eyeroll*

Still, most of the points I've seen have been fairly okay unless argued against otherwise... Doesn't excuse the tone of the thread being this low, but there's still a real discussion somewhere in here nonetheless.

-and at the end of the day, let's face it. People will still like or dislike Bayo for reasons other than balance.
I think if you got Bayo solely because you wanted to be competitive, and you weren't already like... -top 10% or whatever, you're actually just asking for ridicule and deserve Nintendo, or whoever else got that money, rubbing that 5.99 back in your face for being so desperate for a crutch to win a game you're not even good enough to get a notable place in a tournament with. People who "quit" Smash because of Bayo probably weren't big enough fans to start with either. Like what? The top players all saw it as a challenge and were all thinking ways to beat Bayo - real fans. ESAM, for example seemed insanely annoyed people didn't seem to care about the whole being able to SDI up-B > U-air pre-patch thing. That was like... -top player day 1 tech people were ignoring then calling BS on.

The whole drama is so petty and ridiculous, I literally can't feel bad for people who are upset about anything with Bayo if they bought her, unless it was "Yeah, Bayo came out of the woodwork, it's kinda annoying to get used to, but I'll get over it.".

I payed for Bayo because I wanted a fun character and she looked fun. I'm still happy with her post nerf. Who genuinely cares except salty people? Just be less open with your wallets if you care that much, and really, even if it was just a selling point it's ****ing 5.99 to play a slightly "better" character. It literally couldn't matter less to most people.

I know I'm ranting, I know I'm getting worked up, but you guys literally just seem to be "trying to be right" rather than actually discussing it. All the points have been made, it's hit a brick wall, and I can't possibly agree with this post more than I do, holy schmoe:

This is getting ridiculous. The OP's original argument sounds like a conspiracy theory or propaganda about scams when read aloud (although he's probably just expressing his thoughts on the matter like most people would). Additionally, when people make sufficient counterarguments, he tries to address them with worse logical progression. But that doesn't matter in the end, because this topic is not worth butting heads over anymore. Suck it up and enjoy the game the way it is now, or, IDK, just abandon Smash 4 because the image in the spoiler is plaguing your mind.

Spoiler

/end rant

 

[goodgrief]

or it was just an accident and youre being dumb. Meta knight made broken purposely too i guess? lmfao

 

[Astrofallz]

Lol well yeah, it's not okay, but as I've been saying, money > fans. To give an example: the 1.1.4 update to smash exceeded the memory capabilities of the 8gb Wii U, meaning that in order to continue playing Smash, people had to go out and buy an external hard drive. Can you please take a step back and realise how monumentally embarrassing that is for Nintendo? But do you know what they did about it? Nothing. They didn't warn people the update would be too large, they provided no heads up of any kind, after people discovered the issue for themselves and complained to Nintendo they literally said "sorry, we didn't forsee this happening". I doubt Nintendo, Namco or whoever is above making a character OP for a few extra bucks.

No that's what you want them to be.

There isn't a single character in Smash history that was as OP as Bayonetta, however the last part was a good point.

I'm seeing a lot of upset Bayonetta players using the phrase "source material". Coughcough. While we're at it, I'm a main. I'm an electric type. I should therefore have a type advantage against so my moves should do more damage. Or actually my main is from a turn-based RPG so I should hit you first because I have higher speed stats and then I should politely wait until you've hit me back before making my next move.

Source material

Leaving this point alone cause there's nothing to discuss

Then please enlighten me on what they are meant to. What I stated is what they do in every other fighting game.

Leaving this point alone for same reason as first.

You took that point completely out of context. The only reason source material was brought up was because of was Sakurai himself advertised. Sakurai never advertised type advantage or RPG mechanics. However, he did advertise how well Bayo stayed to the source material with the ability to combo her special moves reliably. Watch the launch trailer again if you don't believe me. That was advertised as her core mechanic so the balance team should have nerfed her with the idea of keeping core mechanic intact. They've done a pretty good job of this in previous patches. However, they were either down right lazy or saw her core mechanic to be something else this patch and took that away from her.

 

[Zoom!]

Hey everyone

Thanks for all the responses, it's quite interesting to learn the different views and ideas people have.

My opinion has been changed somewhat - I agree with some posts that have been made about how the trailer advertised Bayonetta to be combo heavy in a way that is reminiscent of her franchise, however that is no longer reflected in her play style and as such some people feel cheated for buying her. To that extent I sympathise with how people feel about the nerfs.

Also the next time I think of a theory like this I think I'm going to write it in a much different tone, looking back it's a lot more bait-y than it needed to be. Some good points were made though and nobody got upset

/thread

 

[Dre89]

Why not? Brawl Meta Knight almost certainly was, so why not Bayonetta? They wanted to make a combo-based character and went a little too far, nothing strange about that.

Isn't it a bit strange that most other DLC characters weren't OP on release? Mewtwo and Roy certainly weren't (Mewtwo even got some nice buffs later). Your conjecture is interesting, but right now it's pretty much a conspiracy theory without any solid evidence at all. So no, I don't think they released Bayonetta OP on purpose.

All the newcomers are 'broken' in the sense that they're straight up better than other characters of the same archetype because they get strengths and bypass weaknesses the others didn't.

Ryu is the best heavy, he's better than the others at everything, he's just not as heavy as the super heavies (not a meaningful weakness).

Cloud and Corrin are the two best swordies. Cloud doesn't have the mobility/frame data weakness that other swordies have, and his charge/stat mechanics are straight up better than any other charge or stat-enhancement character.

Corrin outranges other swordies whilst being safer and having better reward in a lot of instances.

Then there was release Bayo, who had damage racking and killing ability stemming from an unreactable burst option that was safe on shield. No other character has ever had a move that could be used so liberally in neutral, disadvantage, and advantage due to low risk-massive reward. She also had other very good tools on top of that.

I'm not going to say that the newcomers were intentionally overturned to sell, but they definitely weren't designed with the same restrictions that other characters of the same archetype had.

 

[1FC0]

Completely agree with OP. It's the same thing with Corrin and her broken counter. Nintendo deliberately turned up the stats for the two new DLC characters to gain as much attention as possible, but not just for smash, but for the characters' games too.

Nintendo re-released Bayonetta at about the same time the DLC character was released, and Corrin's presence was an obvious advertisement for Fire Emblem Fates.

Bayonetta was designed to decimate the competition, and later Nintendo winded her down.

However, you also have to remember that Nintendo tries to make the characters in Smash as "true to life" as possible. Meaning they are just like how they appear in their own games, and match their in-game personalities. I've never played a bayonetta game before (stupid Wii U only having 32 GB. I would have bought it otherwise), but Bayo may have been an OP combo machine in her own games, so it would make sense for Nintendo to try and capture that aspect of her.

It's like if Spider-man was put into smash bros. He simply wouldn't fit in because he'd be OP simply because he's Spider-man. If Spider-man were balanced in a way that a smash character could fight on par with him, then he wouldn't be spider-man. Same thing with bayo.

But what about Mewtwo in his own games he was supposed to be by far one of the strongets pokemon yet in Melee he was really bad.