Banning Police Chases

[Sandy]

This thread is being spurred by the show Cops, of all things. I happened to watch an episode last night and it got me thinking. It seems (at least from the show) that American police forces will chase just about anyone perceived to be a criminal, regardless of the cost to public safety.

I'll use the example from the show to illustrate my point. Some guy in an SUV is pulled over for a traffic violation (I believe it was speeding). As the officer gets out of the cruiser, he decides to run. The chase goes on for a few minutes; numerous times other motorists have to slam on their brakes or veer out of the way to avoid the SUV and the pursuing cruiser. Eventually the SUV runs a stop sign and clips a taxi going through the intersection, causing the SUV to flip over and the taxi to get wrapped around a traffic light. Had there been any back seat passengers, they would have undoubtedly been killed. The cops on camera don't seem particularly concerned for the safety of the cabbie, who is taken away by an ambulance with moderate to severe injuries. And when they do mention it, it's always in the context of the fleeing SUV driver having "no regard for the safety of the public".

Well here's a thought - he wouldn't be running if you weren't chasing him.

A few years ago in Canada police chases were sanctioned and restricted. While police can still obviously pull you over, or even pursue other vehicles over short distances, officers are required to terminate chases the moment they become even slightly dangerous. The cop will stay with the target vehicle long enough to get the make, model and plate numbers, and attempt a look at the driver and passengers. And that's it. And you know what - it works! With that information police are able to track down suspects almost 90% of the time after the fact. That number is comparable to police chase successes, which also succeed in a capture about 90% of the time.

That is why I think police pursuits should be banned. In the example the show offered... the offense was a speeding ticket. Now that cabbie has at best a long and painful recovery, if not permanent scars and damage. Was it really worth it? And the worst part is the cops seem so proud they got their man... I say who cares? Even if they'd terminated pursuit and never did catch the guy after the fact, who cares? It's not worth the aggravation and danger caused to the public; all of those near misses would've been equally destructive or fatal.

Now I'm not saying no chase should ever occur - obviously if the suspects are extremely dangerous or violent offenders, or if it's a very important criminal of some sort then they need to be caught to ensure public safety. But to chase down every last speeder and suspicious looking character at the cost of innocent lives... why? What purpose does that serve?

 

[Crimson King]

You want the United States police to be LESS efficient?

First, it's COPS, not an acronym.

Well here's a thought - he wouldn't be running if you weren't chasing him.

Based on what? Your example said the cop approached the car and the guy fled. That pretty much is no stimulus from the police.

A few years ago in Canada police chases were sanctioned and restricted. While police can still obviously pull you over, or even pursue other vehicles over short distances, officers are required to terminate chases the moment they become even slightly dangerous. The cop will stay with the target vehicle long enough to get the make, model and plate numbers, and attempt a look at the driver and passengers. And that's it. And you know what - it works! With that information police are able to track down suspects almost 90% of the time after the fact. That number is comparable to police chase successes, which also succeed in a capture about 90% of the time.

United States is a TINY bit different. Criminals can easily flee the country if they are any where near Mexico. Also, American thieves will ditch the car, steal a new one, and be free to go.

That is why I think police pursuits should be banned. In the example the show offered... the offense was a speeding ticket. Now that cabbie has at best a long and painful recovery, if not permanent scars and damage. Was it really worth it? And the worst part is the cops seem so proud they got their man... I say who cares? Even if they'd terminated pursuit and never did catch the guy after the fact, who cares? It's not worth the aggravation and danger caused to the public; all of those near misses would've been equally destructive or fatal.

The cabbie DOESN'T matter. Driving school teaches you that if you see flashing lights, pull over. If you get in their way, it can be perceived as obstruction of justice.

Now I'm not saying no chase should ever occur - obviously if the suspects are extremely dangerous or violent offenders, or if it's a very important criminal of some sort then they need to be caught to ensure public safety. But to chase down every last speeder and suspicious looking character at the cost of innocent lives... why? What purpose does that serve?

It's one of the cop's jobs to ensure overall public safety. If they restrict high speed chases, all you will get is criminal who will go REALLY fast until the cop gives up, and drive out of their jurisdiction, end of case.

 

[Mic_128]

Usually if people run from a simple speeding ticket, there's usually more going on. How many times have things like the drivers wanted for other crimes, the car's stolen, his got a pile of illegal arms or drugs in the car, ect.

 

[Mediocre]

Based on what? Your example said the cop approached the car and the guy fled. That pretty much is no stimulus from the police.

Yes, but once he felt he had escaped the police he probably would have gone back to driving normally, putting less people in danger.

If the police don't pursue, he won't feel the need to continue driving so recklessly.

United States is a TINY bit different. Criminals can easily flee the country if they are any where near Mexico.

Are you kidding?

Here's one thing I've become aware of in my limited experience with shows like these: criminals are dumb.

We've already got a license plate check at the border. Most criminals would drive right into it.

Also, American thieves will ditch the car, steal a new one, and be free to go.

And if they do, and the owner reports it stolen, then the cops will be on the lookout for that car.

I don't see how they'd be "free to go", unless the owner doesn't mind having his car stolen and doesn't bother reporting it.

The cabbie DOESN'T matter. Driving school teaches you that if you see flashing lights, pull over. If you get in their way, it can be perceived as obstruction of justice.

The cabbie was crossing an intersection. Depending on the intersection, he may not have been able to see the intersection.

Anyhow, it's not just the driver who's at risk. When an fleeing suspect rams a minivan with five kids in the back seats, I don't think you can blame the dead kids for being in the car. Obviously, that's an extreme example, but it's something I'm sure has happened in these sorts of chases, although I'm equally certain that they won't show that particular chase on TV.

It's one of the cop's jobs to ensure overall public safety. If they restrict high speed chases, all you will get is criminal who will go REALLY fast until the cop gives up, and drive out of their jurisdiction, end of case.

And into another cop's jurisdiction, who should be on the watch for that license plate.

Usually if people run from a simple speeding ticket, there's usually more going on. How many times have things like the drivers wanted for other crimes, the car's stolen, his got a pile of illegal arms or drugs in the car, ect.

Yes, I'm sure this is often the case. However, I question whether endangering the public by engaging in a high-speed chase is the solution to this problem.

 

[Teebs]

Police chases may be a possible harm to all the drivers in the way, but then again, most accidents caused in police chases are by the suspect. Rarely does an officer create an accident. I may be wrong on that, but that is from my personal view. But if you ban police chases, then how would anyone get caught?

As for jurisdiction, I believe there is an ordinance that will allow a cop to chase into another area if he is in pursuit. I'll look that up, but I believe that is correct.

 

[Mediocre]

Police chases may be a possible harm to all the drivers in the way, but then again, most accidents caused in police chases are by the suspect.

Okay, but that's not the issue.

The question is, are more people harmed by police chases than would be harmed if they were banned? That's the only issue. Whether police officers are the ones directly causing the accidents is a moot issue.

But if you ban police chases, then how would anyone get caught?

Did you bother to read the other posts in this thread? The opening post and my previous post both talk about a feasible system that would allow police to catch suspects without engaging in lengthy and dangerous chases.

 

[Kips]

The question to me seems to be whether police chases are even necessary. Unless the person in the vehicle is opening fire or recklessly attempting to blindside people, obtaining their license plate and such should be more then enough to track them down. Otherwise, these kinds of showboating 'get-'er-done' action is only going to endanger the public for no apparent reason other then immediately getting their man/woman instead of playing the intelligent game of quickly obtaining the information necessary and then nabbing them at a later, more opportune time.

And indeed, if they catch their man? What if he has nothing illegal, like an unregistered firearm or illicit drugs? The answer is that the person can, and likely will, suffer injuries over the matter of a few hundred dollars. It is simply unacceptable for the police to put the public at a risk like this when they could easily manage in other ways.

 

[Gamer4Fire]

They can also chase down criminals by helicopter. That makes it nigh impossible for them to wreck into someone.

And it is against the law for people to run from the police. Unless you want to amend the law so that is no longer illegal, the police have the responsibility to pursue them.

 

[Kips]

But see, like SandTiger said, you could simply chase and terminate the chase after you have obtained the license plate and other needed information. Going gung-ho and driving at ridiculous speeds just to get one or two people, while endangering dozens, is simply not the right option.

As for helicopters, how do you cut them off? It's an even bigger waste of money then the car chases because of the expensive fuel, and it seems to overcomplicate a simple process that could be fixed easily.

 

[Gamer4Fire]

Yeah, I see how if someone stole a car that getting the plate number would be very helpful in informing the victim.

 

[Colenstien]

Banning police chases would be a bad idea. A normal person with nothing to hide will pull over, take the ticket, and go home and stew awhile while watching Jerry Springer. But someone with as little as a bunch of points on their license, to a person with a head in their glove box will most likely run. When they run what do you think the cops should do? "Ahhh, that guy drove off! Well I guess we can go and eat some doughnuts, we might run into him on the way!" No they will give chase and knock his *** out.

Besides, if there were no chases what would Cops show? A bunch of fat cops talking about all the coffee they can down in a minute......... wait that would be interesting, gotta call Fox and give them my idea. Helloooo, golden steaks and silver wine.

 

[Mediocre]

Yeah, I see how if someone stole a car that getting the plate number would be very helpful in informing the victim.

While I understand that this would cause a problem with stolen cars, there's no reason that cops couldn't have a system that would tell them if a car with those plates had been reported stolen, so that they could give chase if it was truly necessary, and avoid putting the public at risk when it wasn't.

Actually, I'm pretty sure at least some police departments can already check for license plate violations with computers. I don't know how widespread this technology is yet, but it could help solve this problem as it becomes more and more prevalent.

 

[Scar]

It's probably a pretty alright idea to analyze all this economically.

The first thing that springs to mind is that if chases are banned, more people will run. In all honesty, I've even thought about running from the coppers for a stupid ticket that's going to give me a stupid fine, points, and an increase in insurance rate. It really could end up being beneficial to just try to run and get into a slightly dangerous chase.

Doing this means you're wagering that the cop won't see you or your plates, because then he'll probably track you down. This assumption yields some noteworthy consequences. Regular people will get caught and punished, and people who really abuse the law (someone stealing a car or someone running fake plates) will go unpunished. This is definitely making things easier for real criminals (which I have noticed is a common theme in criminal justice systems).

So far this is looking like a bad idea. Using the same kind of thinking, how could we stop people from getting hurt? This is just creating incentives to be a little dangerous rather than decreasing inscentive to be dangerous at all.

Well, we could create disincentives to run. If everyone knew that running from a police officer would end up in a real, hardcore chase ending in some real jail time and a HUGE fine? Well now people are thinking twice before they run.

Maybe six months in jail (or however long) they're getting for illegal possession of drugs or whatever they've got is worth it compared to taking the chance of the year-long sentence they're looking at for running.

Just a thought.

 

[Mediocre]

It's probably a pretty alright idea to analyze all this economically.

The first thing that springs to mind is that if chases are banned, more people will run. In all honesty, I've even thought about running from the coppers for a stupid ticket that's going to give me a stupid fine, points, and an increase in insurance rate. It really could end up being beneficial to just try to run and get into a slightly dangerous chase.

Doing this means you're wagering that the cop won't see you or your plates, because then he'll probably track you down. This assumption yields some noteworthy consequences. Regular people will get caught and punished, and people who really abuse the law (someone stealing a car or someone running fake plates) will go unpunished. This is definitely making things easier for real criminals (which I have noticed is a common theme in criminal justice systems).

Yeah, one problem with this. You know those police chase shows? You know how most of them are recorded? With cameras built into the cop car. The policeman doesn't need to remember anything. All he needs to do is check the tapes.

Now, admittedly, not every cop car has these cameras yet, but they are becoming more and more widespread. For cop cars that already have them, this is not an issue, and they can stop giving chase unnecessarily right now.

Well, we could create disincentives to run. If everyone knew that running from a police officer would end up in a real, hardcore chase ending in some real jail time and a HUGE fine? Well now people are thinking twice before they run.

Somehow, I don't think that's going to dissuade drug dealers or other serious offenders from fleeing from the cops.

Maybe six months in jail (or however long) they're getting for illegal possession of drugs or whatever they've got is worth it compared to taking the chance of the year-long sentence they're looking at for running.

Are you kidding? Criminals are stupid. They won't do mental calculations in their head. They have drugs in the car and the cops pull them over, they'll either run or they won't. They won't take the time to compute the odds. They just want to get away with whatever they were doing wrong, so they'll run.

 

[Ledger_Damayn]

Are you kidding?

Here's one thing I've become aware of in my limited experience with shows like these: criminals are dumb.

... Gullible. Do you seriously think, by any stretch of the imagination, that they would be showing you all of the criminals that outsmarted everyone? Or the criminals that got away?

Shows like that are trying to highlight the effectiveness of our police system. Doesn't convince me of anything though. Showing the smart criminals would give mindless TV zombies the wrong idea.

 

[memphischains]

There are a lot of thing that need to be fixed with the american justice system, you also have to realize that COPS is full of crackheads and *******.

I'd rather have fatass cops chasing around white trash with donut crumbs on their face than see an innocent person given lethal injection.

 

[Kips]

Ledger is right, our media doesn't show the success some criminals have in evading the law. This leads to a lot of misconceptions, but I still think the fact that these car chases are dangerous is still valid.

 

[Deleted member]

The first thing that springs to mind is that if chases are banned, more people will run.It really could end up being beneficial to just try to run and get into a slightly dangerous chase.

agreed.if this happens ppl may even make special "adjustments" to their cars as well.
hey nitros is banned in a state?no problem ill use it to get away,they cant chase me.

Yeah, one problem with this. You know those police chase shows? You know how most of them are recorded? With cameras built into the cop car. The policeman doesn't need to remember anything. All he needs to do is check the tapes.

because of the above like i stated if police cant chase you,then all you have to do is cover up your plate if your doing something specific or just mark it up with a marker.

Criminals are stupid. They won't do mental calculations in their head. They have drugs in the car and the cops pull them over, they'll either run or they won't. They won't take the time to compute the odds. They just want to get away with whatever they were doing wrong, so they'll run.

yes and in this case,they dont stop running even if theyre being chased especially if theyre under the influence of drugs or alchahol as well wich being under the influence of anything is highly common nowadays.

... Gullible. Do you seriously think, by any stretch of the imagination, that they would be showing you all of the criminals that outsmarted everyone? Or the criminals that got away?

agreed.in most chases you see (especially on COPS) the person fleeing seems to always get caught.but the fact is,is that is not the case because there are sites where you can see alot more.now that i think about it i believe there was an episode of max x about ppl escaping the police =0
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and to add my own bit to this.
what about hostages?or if theyre under the influence or even suicidal?the thing is,is that the police arent pyscic and dont know what they could approach or what the drivers state is especially if the driver runs before they get a chance to examine(wich is how most chases occur).so the only thing they can do is try to make a step to stop the problem as soon as possible before anyone gets hurt.

like it was stated before,a taxi driver got clipped by the person fleeing.what if that person was drunk and wasnt being chased and hit the taxi and then kept going?