Banned Stages

[varsity_scooter]

Could I get y'alls thoughts on why these following stages are banned?

-Great Bay
-Kongo Jungle
-Mute City
-Jungle Japes
-Brinstar

 

[EmpireCrusher203]

Most stages are banned because they have weird transformations/gimmicks that interrupt the flow of the game. Like sure Dreamland has that wind-blowing, but its very rare that Whispy does anything to cause an upset. Pokemon Stadium has dramatic transformations, but they are given warning so the players have plenty of time to react and prepare. Also the transformations don't include jank **** like enemy NPCs. Fountain of Dreams has random transformations with it's platforms, but the platforms are awfully slow and you don't pay much attention to them in game.

Great Bay= Turtle disappears leaving half of the map to go udner water. Dramatic change of stage size.
Kongo Jungle= Huge asf. Cannons under the stage that make edge guarding super impossible
Mute City= Cars interrupt gameplay and limit players to platforms
Jungle Japes= Water literally kills you if you touch it
Brinstar= lava is annoying asf

 

[varsity_scooter]

I agree that all of those stages have some jank and reasons why they were banned but I think it would be a good time to discuss stage legality. I think the stage change Great Bay has is much less jank than pokemon transformations that enable infinite combos. Kongo Jungle is huge but so is Dreamland- I guess it could promote platform camping but can you explain more about how the cannon hurts edgeguarding? I'm not being sassy I just want to hear your thoughts on it haha. And yeah, the cars on mute city can be annoying but just like on Pokemon, you have plenty of time to react. Jungle Japes only kills you if you fall in on the left side, and I don't think the water us reason enough to ban it. And the lava on Brinstar is annoying and you have to play around it, but there are plenty of other annoying things in the game.

Basically, I think the reason some stages are banned should either make Pokemon banned, or make them legal. Yeah there are annoying things on these stages you have to take into consideration while playing but there already are on the legal stages, as well as plenty of annoying matchups you have to adapt to. That's a fundamental component in competitive smash- adaptation. Saying all these stages should be banned without thoughtful discussion is just halting progress in the community.

Now I don't think I'll be able to change everyone's mind about these things but I would like to have open- minded discussion so I can potentially implement them in my own community.

 

[iAmMatt]

-Great Bay

Stage hazards

-Kongo Jungle

Stage hazards

-Mute City

Stage hazards

-Jungle Japes

Stage hazards

-Brinstar

Stage hazards

Any stage with a mechanic/severe alteration in terrain shouldn't be legal and should be considered a stage with a hazard. This is also why I think ps should be banned.

 

[varsity_scooter]

Stage hazards

Stage hazards

Stage hazards

Stage hazards

Stage hazards

Any stage with a mechanic/severe alteration in terrain shouldn't be legal and should be considered a stage with a hazard. This is also why I think ps should be banned.

Can you define severe? I agree that they're not optimal to play with, I think the optimal stage choice is frozen 20XX stages but who gets to decide what is severe? Yoshi's, Dreamland, and FoD have some form of stage alteration as well

 

[EmpireCrusher203]

20xx is a modpack which isn't allowed in most tournament scenes. If it were legal then TOs would have to spend valuable time and resources to verify the legality of each modded game. 20xx Yoshi's, Dreamland, and FoD are really good stages, but TOs will not risk letting in hacked copies of melee that may lead to cheating.

And I agree Pokemon Stadium is jank for allowing for infinite combos, but I don't see this as a reason to ban it. I mean it's no different than wobbling, except wobbling is infinite and can happen on any stage, while infinite shine combos can only happen on Pokemon Stadium and for limited amount of times. Instead of banning Pokemon Stadium due to these combos, I suggest the players adapt their playstyle to avoid them, much like how the metagame had to adapt to the emergence of wobbling.

Severe transformations are those that interrupt gameplay and hurt or benefits the players. An example is Rainbow Cruise, the players must constantly be on the move and have little time to actually fight each other. Then the game no longer becomes player-vs-player, but rather player-vs-environment. The point of a tournament is to see how well can a player outplay their opponent, rather than "how well can a player use their environment" or "how well can a player avoid obstacles."

 

[iAmMatt]

Can you define severe? I agree that they're not optimal to play with, I think the optimal stage choice is frozen 20XX stages but who gets to decide what is severe? Yoshi's, Dreamland, and FoD have some form of stage alteration as well

I used severe mostly to address pokemon stadium. The severe alterations I was talking about is the stage transformations. A giant rock jutting out from the bottom of the stage at a moments notice can really **** up the flow of the match and is on the same level of interference as mute city's cars imo.

 

[Captain Phobos]

Basically either stage hazards, or randomized things that give players an unfair advantage.

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

• Great Bay has a hard central platform where one can stage-spike y'all to an unusually early KO, and the blast zone to the left is awfully close to the stage again allowing for early KOs.
• Kongo Jungle has that rock at the far right which is a highly potent camping spot. Sometimes, a Klaptrap gets shot out of the barrel onto the stage, launching your ass to the stratosphere. Ouch...
• Mute City has no ledges to grab onto, so recovery becomes more of a pain for some characters like or . Not to mention the cars rack up a ****load of damage on fast-fallers like the aforementioned Falco.
• Jungle Japes has a very far upper blast zone, favoring those characters having mainly horizontal finishers. And again, the Klaptrap comes by regularly, spiking anyone in its path to a guaranteed death. A travesty, I say!
• Brinstar favors those with good air games and the acid reduces the stage to a smaller size than before and allows nasty f-air combos with it.

 

[.Marik]

Could I get y'alls thoughts on why these following stages are banned?

-Great Bay
-Kongo Jungle
-Mute City
-Jungle Japes
-Brinstar

hazards and great bay encourages camping on the bottom platforms