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Social Banjo-Kazooie Social Thread - Project Dream Come True!

D

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Sakurai's design stuffs support Steve imo if he actually imagines how he could make Steve work and show emotion with the pixels on his face...which he could do. Really this stuff is just based on opinion, some people will think it looks good while others can't fathom it. There are these animations some made which seem pretty good but could probably use some touch-ups here and there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RZdPMvPGv8

And I don't get why the Minecraft fanbase is labeled as cringe, I can say the same thing about how a lot of people act in Smash's fanbase and others. I get that Microsoft markets it for kids, but that seems unfair imo.

Now, I don't care whether anyone likes or dislikes Steve, these two things just tend to nag at me.



You say debunked as if no one has given points for the opposite.
Yup, I feel like using the Minecraft fandom as a point against Steve isn't right.

There isn't a single fandom who is completely good (there can be fandoms where one feels better than in others, but even those have a few flaws at times).

And even then, the Minecraft fandom isn't that bad, and many people there actually make cool stuff on the game.
 

ChinaCat

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hey guys what are we trying to accomplish arguing over if steve qualifies as an "icon" or not it seems to be going in circles
 

Mr. Stagg

Ay ugly! Gimme back my friggen sister!
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Remember Sakurai isn't a god. It's possible he just can't make a character work. Captain Falcon is just a human. Pretty blank state to make any moveset with him work.
You guys both gave me similar responses... that Steve is just too basic to fit in Smash, and shows no emotions whatsoever. My only gripe with that is, look at what Minecraft is. Minecraft itself represents simplicity. Look at the abysmal graphics of the game. It matches up perfectly with Steve's simplicity, and I feel like if Steve retained the weird, emotionless, stiff and simple aspects of himself in Smash, it would only better contribute to Minecraft's representation. He may look strange compared to the other characters in Smash, but that's the point; there's no other game out there like Minecraft. There's also the possibility that Sakurai and his team can give Steve his own type of flair. Remember, Captain Falcon was only ever seen in a car before Sakurai turned him into a ground soldier.
That still proves my point. Capt Falcon still has a base structure that can move and be molded into the fast brawler he is. Same goes for Fox, Falco, and Wolf. Steve cannot move as well even with the Dungeons changes and that severely hampers his viability.
 

TheBeastHimself

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I don't want to be rude either, or carry on an irrelevant argument. If you want we can take it to DMs to not further derail the thread or you can look over the past pages to see all these points and more thoroughly debunked.
I mean, it's up to you I don't mind. I'm not trying to specifically have a debate with you, I'm more or less giving my counterarguments in Steve's defense. I did look over the other pages and I disagreed with what was "debunked" about Steve which is why I'm here continuing the conversation.

hey guys what are we trying to accomplish arguing over if steve qualifies as an "icon" or not it seems to be going in circles
Nothing in particular. I disagree with some people's opinions on Steve, so I'm going to argue. I'm not trying to be a **** about it, I'm only exercising my right to debate. If you guys really want to just remove Steve from the conversation I'll back off, but I don't think it's fair to say that the arguments for Steve were "thoroughly debunked" and then call it a day when I have more to add to the discussion. It may sound like I'm just regurgitating what others have already said, but the points are still valid and proves that no side has won the argument because if they did, we wouldn't be here arguing anymore.

That still proves my point. Capt Falcon still has a base structure that can move and be molded into the fast brawler he is. Same goes for Fox, Falco, and Wolf. Steve cannot move as well even with the Dungeons changes and that severely hampers his viability.
Yes, but Steve not being able to move as well is reminiscent of Minecraft's simplicity, which would overall represent the franchise better.
 

TheCJBrine

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Steve may have stiff limbs but I can see him moving just fine, especially with those animations I linked (even if it was really just idle animations + shield/parry)

Another example (though the jab really doesn't need to stretch his limbs): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qalfDY0LSrU

His other animations can simply be based on his running/walking and other animations in Minecraft with new animations added, I don't see the need to assume why Sakurai wouldn't make new animations when he always does that. Steve can have "fluid" animations (assuming that means seamless animations that can go together well) despite lacking knees/elbows.
 
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MissingGlitch

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It really doesn't help that when someone says "I like Banjo" here someone always comes in here to say "Banjo is nice I guess but here is ever reason ever its going to be Steve instead of Banjo and you gotta deal with it" without fail with the same people patting each other on the back for saying it.
 
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TheCJBrine

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It really doesn't help that when someone says "I like Banjo" here someone always comes in here to say "Banjo is nice I guess but here is ever reason ever its going to be Steve instead of Banjo and you gotta deal with it" without fail with the same people patting each other on the back for saying it.
Some of us aren't saying this at all, we're simply explaining how Steve could work especially myself who's biased for Steve and Banjo.
 

TheBeastHimself

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It really doesn't help that when someone says "I like Banjo" here someone always comes in here to say "Banjo is nice I guess but here is ever reason ever its going to be Steve instead of Banjo and you gotta deal with it" without fail with the same people patting each other on the back for saying it.
I don't think anyone is doing that right now. I can't speak on the past, but people are giving reasons why Steve wouldn't work and I am giving my reasons why I think he would work. I'm only offering the other side of the argument, not trying to discredit Banjo at all.
 

G83mBoy

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The best way to point put the very real problems I and many other have with him is that Steve has no means of properly articulating himself in the Smash world. Even with the proposed changes based on Minecraft Dungeons, he still does not have the range of movement required to flow on the battlefield. Plus there are no unique animations or references to pull from to make a viable moveset. These glaring issues also comes with the lack of Music that can be assimilated into Smash.

Look at King K.Rool, all his specials and some normals reflect various aspects of his character. Blunderbuss, Crown throw, Gut Check and Heli-crocpter pack are all based on his appearances in DKc and even DK64 for his final smash and side smash. Even his other uninspired moves form a personality that revolves around his goofy villain persona. Banjo and Kazooie fit this mold perfectly as we already talked about in this thread.

Even looking at all the other blank characters you see one commonality; movement, emotion and articulation. Smack an Inkling and you see the pain on their face, grab a villager and you see how they struggle, taunt as Game and Watch and you'll see him jump for joy or sigh in relief. Steve has none of this, no matter how much you change him. It's like fitting a Square block in a round hole. Sure it's a nice, shiny, popular block, but trim the edges then it just looks awkward and is no longer its original identity.

I'm sure there are other reasons, but those are my personal problems with him. Other superfluous reasons are things like the Minecraft fanbase being steeped in cringe culture and the way people tend to grow out of Minecraft. Again these reasons are completely irrelevant, what matters is if Steve can work as a fighter. I say no, and Sakurai's design ethics support that.
Not sure why you are still saying that Steve lacks these things. Minecraft Dungeons gives Minecraft characters range for all types of facial expressions. You could even justify changing the pixels on his face to respond to actions just like Minecraft skins and it would not look out of place at all.

The Minecraft minigames on consoles have plenty of battle-ready music ( https://youtu.be/hLKgH37Bu4U ) . Add in some classic Minecraft tracks, remixes of said classics, and a noteblock theme of Lifelight and it would be enough of a selection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qalfDY0LSrU works for the already-limited animations of the original Minecraft, so I'm not sure why the more fluid and free-form joints of Dungeons would not only help.
 

osby

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It really doesn't help that when someone says "I like Banjo" here someone always comes in here to say "Banjo is nice I guess but here is ever reason ever its going to be Steve instead of Banjo and you gotta deal with it" without fail with the same people patting each other on the back for saying it.
Can you show an example of this? Because this is a pretty specific accusation.
 

MissingGlitch

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I'm not saying everyone is doing it. But some people really give off that vibe.

Then again it might just be me reading everything as negative like I always do. Sorry..
 
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TheAnvil

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It really doesn't help that when someone says "I like Banjo" here someone always comes in here to say "Banjo is nice I guess but here is ever reason ever its going to be Steve instead of Banjo and you gotta deal with it" without fail with the same people patting each other on the back for saying it.
I don't really understand why the 3 or 4 people who keep bringing Steve up don't just go revive the dead Steve thread.
 

TheBeastHimself

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I don't really understand why the 3 or 4 people who keep bringing Steve up don't just go revive the dead Steve thread.
I mean if Steve is brought up, he's fair game for discussion regardless of what thread it's in. Nobody to my knowledge is coming in here with the intentions of derailing this thread, or throwing shade at Banjo to prove that Steve is superior or anything like that. Discussions like this not only keep discussion going (because let's face it there's not a whole lot to talk about) but it also keeps this thread from becoming an echo chamber. I just hope people aren't taking these discussions personally.

EDIT: Let's end this discussion, however. The topic has been derailed even if it wasn't intended to, and it's not fair to the Banjo thread.
 
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TheAnvil

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I mean if Steve is brought up, he's fair game for discussion regardless of what thread it's in. Nobody to my knowledge is coming in here with the intentions of derailing this thread, or throwing shade at Banjo to prove that Steve is superior or anything like that. Discussions like this not only keep discussion going (because let's face it there's not a whole lot to talk about) but it also keeps this thread from becoming an echo chamber.
It gets to the point when it's the same few people over and over again. I know there are fans of both in here, but there's really no reason to keep having the same discussions about Steve in the Banjo thread.

Those people clearly want to keep talking about him, so why not do it in the dedicated thread?
 
D

Deleted member

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I don't really understand why the 3 or 4 people who keep bringing Steve up don't just go revive the dead Steve thread.
I did so today, tbh.

I basically visited both threads to share how I found the Cuphead port and the rumours Xbox stuff on Switch getting more realistic as a point supporting the idea of a second Microsoft rep in a second Fighter Pass.
 
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TheBeastHimself

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It gets to the point when it's the same few people over and over again. I know there are fans of both in here, but there's really no reason to keep having the same discussions about Steve in the Banjo thread.

Those people clearly want to keep talking about him, so why not do it in the dedicated thread?
I just made an edit to my previous post. Let's end the Steve discussion because it just isn't fair to do all of this in the Banjo thread, and I apologize for carried away with it.
 

osby

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I don't really understand why the 3 or 4 people who keep bringing Steve up don't just go revive the dead Steve thread.
Last post in the Steve thread is from 30 minutes ago.

Are you sure you want to keep putting down Steve fans? It really doesn't help your case.
 

TheCJBrine

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Those people clearly want to keep talking about him, so why not do it in the dedicated thread?
'cause we're just trying to point out how Steve could work which no one is discussing or asking about in the Steve thread.

I feel like people are just shrugging it off while pushing "Sakurai wouldn't do that" even though he very well could; how it looks depends on opinions.
 
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Mr. Stagg

Ay ugly! Gimme back my friggen sister!
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I just made an edit to my previous post. Let's end the Steve discussion because it just isn't fair to do all of this in the Banjo thread, and I apologize for carried away with it.
I'm about done with it to. We all need to stay on topic and remember.
Toy_Story4_Woody_Forky.jpg

Everything is going to be ok.
 

TheAnvil

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Last post in the Steve thread is from 30 minutes ago.

Are you sure you want to keep putting down Steve fans? It really doesn't help your case.
Ah it was revived a few days ago. Cool, now you all have no excuses to keep trolling in the Banjo thread.
 

BZocky

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Nintendo and Rare can collaborate together again.
I know they aren't nearly the same companies as they were in 2001 but there's still something outside of the possible upcoming releases that resonates nicely with me about this. Is this closure?
 

TheBeastHimself

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This'll be my last post on the matter, but I said what I wanted to say regarding Steve. It seems like there's something more personal under this Steve debate for a lot of people, like some underlying beef people have with the character. I don't know if that's because he can be a threat to Banjo or whatever else, but I simply wanted to have an objective argument without biases. If I don't find the way people treat Steve to be fair, I have the right to debate it. But it is very rude to me when people make assumptions about my intentions. Because this debate is taking a more personal turn, I'm out.

Ah it was revived a few days ago. Cool, now you all have no excuses to keep trolling in the Banjo thread.
Where are you getting this idea from?? Nobody is trying to troll the Banjo thread whatsoever.
 

SuperiorYoshi87

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Cuphead on Switch is cool, nice to see a MS exclusive game on Switch. Makes me real confident in a MS character for DLC... what better character than one that has a legacy with Nintendo and is owned by Microsoft, who seemed impossible years ago but is looking more realistic now.. guh-uh intensifies
 
D

Deleted member

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I am just happy with the gates that the Nindies Direct and the Halo rumours have opened for Microsoft representation in Smash.

Now we can see the idea of two characters owned by the company as something possible, even if it happens with one coming in a second fighter pass.

Overall: Banjo's chances got higher.
 

TheCJBrine

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well now I feel like our posts aren't even being read.

There's no problem with disliking Steve and how he may look (of course), but pushing it as something Sakurai wouldn't do doesn't seem right since it's mainly based on opinion. I honestly feel like y'all wouldn't even care if Steve got in with stiff-limbs and whatnot, if Banjo-Kazooie gets announced for Smash as well.

as a Banjo/Steve fan this feels hard for me to ignore. I'll try and drop it, but it does feel a bit harsh since no one seems to consider how Steve could work, and just shrugs him off instead (I can see how he'd look bad to others, it's just the opposite in my opinion). It wasn't even a Banjo vs. Steve debate for us who were just describing this stuff...
 
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MissingGlitch

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I would love another 2D character in Smash like Cuphead. I would love Master Chief. Battletoads would be all right I guess I've never really played it but it wouldn't be a terrible choice. Conker would be really neat. Viva pinata would be 10 out of 10.
 

TheAnvil

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I'd say nah only because Rare seems like they want to focus on new stuff.
It probably doesn't have to be done by Rare though. They didn't handle KI. It'd just take Nintendo/Microsoft both wanting it, and finding a team to work it. Would probably even have Banjo/Conker now.
 

TheBeastHimself

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It probably doesn't have to be done by Rare though. They didn't handle KI. It'd just take Nintendo/Microsoft both wanting it, and finding a team to work it. Would probably even have Banjo/Conker now.
That's true. I forgot about that. I guess anything is possible, Nintendo and Rare just need to know that there's still demand for these titles.
 

TheAnvil

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With Microsoft and Nintendo co-operating heavily I am VERY interested in what game it is that Rare is working on though.
 

Mr. Stagg

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I would love another 2D character in Smash like Cuphead. I would love Master Chief. Battletoads would be all right I guess I've never really played it but it wouldn't be a terrible choice. Conker would be really neat. Viva pinata would be 10 out of 10.
Who's to say Marcus Fenix can't join in? It's a bit unlikely but would be sick.
 

ChinaCat

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yeah sorry didnt want to sound like a jerk it just started to seem like it was taking a turn towards the hostile end of the discussion spectrum. The thread is jumping right now though holy crap 50 people viewing the thread as i'm typing this so maybe i'm just full of it (like usual lol)
 

JamesDNaux

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I'd have the mind to ask the mods to ban Minecraft discussion from this thread if they themselves weren't already participating in it.

If Steve is so iconic, beloved, and requested for Smash, why don't you go discuss him in his own thread instead of leeching off of ours.
 

N3ON

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well now I feel like our posts aren't even being read.

There's no problem with disliking Steve and how he may look (of course), but pushing it as something Sakurai wouldn't do doesn't seem right since it's mainly based on opinion. I honestly feel like y'all wouldn't even care if Steve got in with stiff-limbs and whatnot, if Banjo-Kazooie gets announced for Smash as well.

as a Banjo/Steve fan this feels hard for me to ignore. I'll try and drop it, but it does feel a bit harsh since no one seems to consider how Steve could work, and just shrugs him off instead (I can see how he'd look bad to others, it's just the opposite in my opinion). It wasn't even a Banjo vs. Steve debate for us who were just describing this stuff...
Yeah there's a decent amount of railing on Steve leading to arguing on Steve's merits leading to either a) silence in response b) people claiming you must hate Banjo/adore Steve or c) being told to take it to the Steve thread even though it's a reply to another comment.

Ah well.
 
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TheCJBrine

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If Steve is so iconic, beloved, and requested for Smash, why don't you go discuss him in his own thread instead of leeching off of ours.
We weren't saying Banjo wasn't, as a Banjo fan I don't see why anyone would say he isn't iconic, since he's definitely Rare's icon and an icon of early Nintendo.

We were describing how Steve could work or how he is an icon in his own way as well, or something. If anyone brought up a real relevancy argument, though, then that wasn't needed, especially since it wasn't even a Banjo vs. Steve thing and other characters have debunked that.

now I hope we can drop this and if anyone here wants to ask about Steve and how he'd work please just go to the Steve thread.
 
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SneakyLink

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There was a problem fetching the tweet
Something to lighten the mood.

Look at the top player...
 
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