BAN HYBRID GATE

[-ACE-]

I'm not afraid of change. I'm all for mods that fix controller inconsistency issues. I think the vast majority of intentions of Kadano, hax, and others are good and sensible. But hybrid gate (perfect wd notches) crossed a major line with little to no opposition, let alone discussion.

Hybrid gate does nothing more than hand perfect wavedashes to you on a silver platter. Actually, I lied; it does much more than that. Even with recovery angles out of the picture, this is the single most desired angle in the game. It also gives you maximum distance for grounded ASDI, be for punish or evade. If you do not understand how significant this is, I do not see it as my fault.

We can see first hand that this has started a trend. The slippery slope of legality is not an argument, it is a fact. Hax now wants to make this angle insanely easier to achieve.

Common arguments against my stance include "but the perfect wd angle is almost impossible to hit" and "it will advance the meta". Advancing the meta is not the only issue when we are talking about a competition. Tournaments exist to test player ability. These people are too caught up on that particular angle. A long wavedash will accomplish almost anything a perfect one will, regarding punishes, follow-ups, and even evasive maneuvers. Long wavedashes are not even close to impossible if you are good at wavedashing. These people are openly admitting that superhuman accuracy with the stick should be granted to all players. As it is, players who are good at wavedashing have access to the benefits of long wavedashes. After hybrid gate and the various similar changes that follow, countless players who are not good at wavedashing will have access to these benefits. These movements are taking skill out of the game, and this is an absolutely grimey trend from a competitive standpoint.

Even if we can't ban hybrid gate because people say "it's too late", something should be done. Because as soon as we allowed Kadano notches to happen, we allowed this to happen...

https://youtu.be/82s-istCVug

...As it is nonsensical to attempt to regulate the depth, size, or shape of notches. Or is it?

Disclaimer: in that video I messed up on the right side, my tech is rusty, and I didn't feel like redoing the video. But you get the picture. It has been a few years since I notched a controller. I first notched a controller for perfect wavedashes in 2007. I didn't see myself as an innovator. I only did it out of curiosity for experimentation purposes. Had I used it in tournament, I would have viewed myself as a cheater.

The only reason this change happened is we have no governing body, organization, or elected committee that determines what is best for both melee and or community from a standpoint of competition. We are now witnessing the fruits of never having such a group. Maybe we should ****ing have one.

People simply do not like the risk/reward dynamic associated with going for a long wd. They want more reward and less risk. They want not only long wavedashes granted to them, but the longest one. Shouldn't tournaments test player ability? Shouldn't player ability be earned? Shouldn't we be impressed when we see someone hitting long wavedashes consistently, knowing a hack isn't making it much easier for them?

Thoughts?

 

[-ACE-]

Creaters and supporters of the smashbox and b0xx will justify this change at any cost, because they want to shoehorn their products into legality. I want anyone reading to disregard this as they think this through.

Accuracy with the stick is the most important skill in the game.

 

[ridemyboat]

The only reason this change happened is we have no governing body, organization, or elected committee that determines what is best for both melee and or community from a standpoint of competition. We are now witnessing the fruits of never having such a group. Maybe we should ****ing have one.

How do we get one?

 

[-ACE-]

How do we get one?

Unfortunately, at least a handful of popular players who are either respected or widely considered as knowledgeable would have to take a stand. They would have to believe in the preservation of melee's competitive nature, and see that as more important than simply pushing the metagame. And they would have to have the cohones to shamelessly go against what seems to be popular opinion (namely amongst newer players).

As important as the viewers are, the players are more important.

Melee DID start out as a party game. But by removing skill from it, it becomes MORE like a party game. Food for thought.

We must remember that players aren't necessarily using hybrid gate because they agree with it, but because they can, and because their competition is using it. This again highlights the slippery slope of legality. If it gives someone a competitive advantage, and no one is telling them it's illegal, they'll do it, and convince themselves that it's acceptable, focusing on any pros of the change while being quick to disregard the cons. Melee wouldn't suffer a bit if it remained as technically demanding as it always has been.

Today's minor change is tomorrow's norm, and then it's on to the next "minor" change. We must ask ourselves if it is too late to do something, and if so, why (and determine how valid the reason is), and what is it not too late to do.

 

[Dolla Pills]

Yeah we will be banning this in our university scene. We're considering using memory cards or modified ISO's with dashback and shield drop fixes (techniques which actually vary based on controller) but want to make sure that's done in the best way possible. Imo there's no good reason to legalize perfect angle notches and I would like to hear some

 

[.Marik]

i agree with ace 100%

 

[iAmMatt]

Until there's some sort of governing body for melee as a whole, I say the use of notched controllers is up to the jurisdiction of the TO and ONLY the TO. It's not hard for someone to inspect controllers for these notches, as they're easy to spot. Regarding the issue of a "decoy controller", players caught using a notched controller should be banned for not only cheating, but for disregarding any doubts they might've had about playing in tournament with a notched controller in the first place. <--all imo

 

[-ACE-]

Until there's some sort of governing body for melee as a whole, I say the use of notched controllers is up to the jurisdiction of the TO and ONLY the TO. It's not hard for someone to inspect controllers for these notches, as they're easy to spot. Regarding the issue of a "decoy controller", players caught using a notched controller should be banned for not only cheating, but for disregarding any doubts they might've had about playing in tournament with a notched controller in the first place. <--all imo

Ultimately, it will always be up to the TO. The governing body, ideally, would be in direct communication with the TO's of super majors and set a standard. Ideally, we'd want all tournaments that count for the top 100 rankings to be testing pure player ability. The backdash and shield drop hacks would help with this.

 

[.Marik]

needing mods to keep up with competitive play is the start of this slippery slope

what comes next i guess >>

no mods period should have ever been allowed... i dont really like where this is going. i know the community is gonna try and be gay as hell about this lol

 

[ridemyboat]

Honestly, it's incredibly annoying because people are wasting their money and damaging perfectly good gamecube controllers. It will likely take years for any consensus.

 

[iAmMatt]

Ultimately, it will always be up to the TO. The governing body, ideally, would be in direct communication with the TO's of super majors and set a standard. Ideally, we'd want all tournaments that count for the top 100 rankings to be testing pure player ability. The backdash and shield drop hacks would help with this.

True. I was talking specifically about a local level, as checking everyone's controllers at a super major would take forever.

 

[KirinKQP]

Why would players today bring up mods to improve gameplay even though it was not a thing for more than a decade? Just a cheap way to getting results?

 

[-ACE-]

Why would players today bring up mods to improve gameplay even though it was not a thing for more than a decade? Just a cheap way to getting results?

"Improve gameplay" is very broad. Fixing controller variance issues improves game play and is good for competition. It could be argued that making perfect wd insanely easier "improves gamplay", in a similar way that steroids yield more home runs, but anything that takes skill out of the game is far from an improvement from a competitive standpoint, especially when it was the first change to ever do so. The immediate effects of the change hybrid gate presented are bad enough, but the long term effects are far worse, as we have effectively abandoned the concept of making controllers perform as intended, and simply made the game less technical; a highly questionable trend. Many people want to be better at this game so badly that they will justify such changes at any cost, many don't care enough, many see it as too late to do anything, and many simply aren't knowledgeable enough to understand the significance of such changes.

Disclaimer: the purpose of the steroids example isn't to directly compare hybrid gate to steroids in a literal sense, but to highlight a concept (largely the importance of a competition testing solely player ability). I must say this because the amount of people that do not understand the purpose of analogies and other comparisons is, unfortunately, astronomical.