Bad Matchups

[AthleticNerd93]

What are Ike's worst matchups?

 

[Commander]

Probably Falco

 

[Cox Box]

Snake is really hard too, since his mines and tranquilizer make using QD harder, and his crouch makes grabbing him impossible. It might not be so bad in practice, but it requires you to play in a much different way than against any other character.

 

[X0dus]

Snake is really hard too, since his mines and tranquilizer make using QD harder, and his crouch makes grabbing him impossible. It might not be so bad in practice, but it requires you to play in a much different way than against any other character.

I think Ike wins slightly. With Tranqs, I jump just before getting hit so I get to close the distance and give him less stage control. And a well spaced down tilt beats his crouch and sets up for a grab or combo, And 1 hit goes really far against him and once you knock him off stage, he should be dead.

I honestly think DDD is Ike's worst match-up.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Ike does not "win slightly" against Snake. Snake's CC game is strong in addition to his crouch going under our grab and him having a crawl, making starting combos against him especially difficult. Ike doesn't have a lot of true combos, but juggles and strings he gets off of staggered positioning, good spacing and reads. This requires a good deal of horizontal and platform mobility, which Snake is exceptional at choking out with his vast array of tools. Additionally, Snake has no such compunctions: His UThrow wrecks us, leading into stickies and aerial follow-ups and his combo game on us is much more straightforward. Offstage is literally our only saving grace, where Snake's ****ty aerial mobility v/s our fair is bad for him, but even then he has the option of going low, extending or even stalling recovery with grenades and stickies, or going very high beyond our reach and descending relatively safely with a 'nade, causing us to have to space very carefully to avoid being blown up as we try to hit him, which has hard to do while taking good drift into account. On the flipside, sticky + DSmash + taking edge covers so many of our options that recovering against Snake is as much of a nightmare as it is against Marth.

Snake is easily a 65-35 matchup. If you can barely get anything started, he forces approaches, chokes out your offensive strength and edgeguards you better than you edgeguard him, it is a ****ty matchup.

That said, Ally is a literal god and the MU isn't unwinnable because if we're able to lay the pressure on Snake, weave through his web and press down on his jugular, not letting him set up more, the matchip becomes more winnable. Picking the right stages is key [WE NEED SPACE, STOP TAKING PEOPLE TO WARIOWARE. IT IS NOT A GOOD STAGE FOR US.]

 

[X0dus]

Ike does not "win slightly" against Snake. Snake's CC game is strong in addition to his crouch going under our grab and him having a crawl, making starting combos against him especially difficult. Ike doesn't have a lot of true combos, but juggles and strings he gets off of staggered positioning, good spacing and reads. This requires a good deal of horizontal and platform mobility, which Snake is exceptional at choking out with his vast array of tools. Additionally, Snake has no such compunctions: His UThrow wrecks us, leading into stickies and aerial follow-ups and his combo game on us is much more straightforward. Offstage is literally our only saving grace, where Snake's ****ty aerial mobility v/s our fair is bad for him, but even then he has the option of going low, extending or even stalling recovery with grenades and stickies, or going very high beyond our reach and descending relatively safely with a 'nade, causing us to have to space very carefully to avoid being blown up as we try to hit him, which has hard to do while taking good drift into account. On the flipside, sticky + DSmash + taking edge covers so many of our options that recovering against Snake is as much of a nightmare as it is against Marth.

Snake is easily a 65-35 matchup. If you can barely get anything started, he forces approaches, chokes out your offensive strength and edgeguards you better than you edgeguard him, it is a ****ty matchup.

That said, Ally is a literal god and the MU isn't unwinnable because if we're able to lay the pressure on Snake, weave through his web and press down on his jugular, not letting him set up more, the matchip becomes more winnable. Picking the right stages is key [WE NEED SPACE, STOP TAKING PEOPLE TO WARIOWARE. IT IS NOT A GOOD STAGE FOR US.]

I have never had a problem with Snake, even when I played people who knew the match-up and I didn't. I have never had a problem grabbing Snake, he pulls a nade and shields, I back off just far enough to let it go off and while he is in shield stun, I grab him with QD grab. I also do cross up nair when he CC's and I've never gotten punished for it. I've always just juggled the **** out of him because he doesn't seem to have many good options coming down besides C4 and Dair and U-air can beat it with good spacing and it depends on where the C4 is. And as a big and heavy character, getting combo'd to hell and back and moves that bodies use if we get caught in it is something I'm use too. When he recovers low, I hit him with Dair or eruption. Probably doing back air if they tech now with C4 after seeing Axe vs. Messi. If he goes high enough, I can do walk-off fair. You got me if he goes too high for us.
For Down-smash edge guards, I do Aether because it blows it up from the start up and keeps me safe. For C4, you have to SDI to the wall and tech it, if you are forced on stage, you are screwed but the C4 isn't going to kill you unless you are at very high percents. Like at least 150%. I don't think I have ever experienced why it would be bad or what that would be like, or I don't think I have even see it.
I could be talking out my ass. I've probably never played a really good Snake that has made me feel like it was that bad and I'm actually ignore of the match-up. Could be complete dog ****. Metroid did play Messi recently, hopefully it was recorded since he lost and I can see why its so bad.

 

[Deleted member]

ikes bad matchups are based on strategic issues with the character much more than based on power level or issues with the opponents character. ike has almost no way to exploit an opponent, he doesnt have gimps, a degenerate dashdance, he cant spam, cant camp, etc. ike wins matchups because hes heavy, fast enough to get by, and kills people really good. any matchup ike has to fight something degenerate like falco lasers, marths dashdance, kirbys crouch, hes basically going to have a hard time. any character without cheese he basically bodies. i would say ike's worst MUs are dahdance characters he cant interact with (fox marth falcon metaknight), low crouches (kirby gaw jigglypuff sheik), and characters with projectiles that really stifle his ground game (diddy ZSS falco). if they dont use those tools correctly, ike goes from losing the matchup to probably winning it.

 

[Jake The Preacher]

Falco's pretty hard, unless he doesn't laser. If he doesn't laser it's a whole lot easier. I've got a friend who gives me trouble with Kirby but I think I'm just not that great at adapting

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I have never had a problem with Snake, even when I played people who knew the match-up and I didn't. I have never had a problem grabbing Snake, he pulls a nade and shields, I back off just far enough to let it go off and while he is in shield stun, I grab him with QD grab. I also do cross up nair when he CC's and I've never gotten punished for it. I've always just juggled the **** out of him because he doesn't seem to have many good options coming down besides C4 and Dair and U-air can beat it with good spacing and it depends on where the C4 is. And as a big and heavy character, getting combo'd to hell and back and moves that bodies use if we get caught in it is something I'm use too. When he recovers low, I hit him with Dair or eruption. Probably doing back air if they tech now with C4 after seeing Axe vs. Messi. If he goes high enough, I can do walk-off fair. You got me if he goes too high for us.
For Down-smash edge guards, I do Aether because it blows it up from the start up and keeps me safe. For C4, you have to SDI to the wall and tech it, if you are forced on stage, you are screwed but the C4 isn't going to kill you unless you are at very high percents. Like at least 150%. I don't think I have ever experienced why it would be bad or what that would be like, or I don't think I have even see it.
I could be talking out my ***. I've probably never played a really good Snake that has made me feel like it was that bad and I'm actually ignore of the match-up. Could be complete dog ****. Metroid did play Messi recently, hopefully it was recorded since he lost and I can see why its so bad.

I had the same opinion you did, then I asked Pro about it. I trust his opinion more than mine, lol.

You can call 'appeal to authority' and ignore me ... but it's Pro. He probably knows what he's talking about. The MU still isn't unwinnable like I said, but Ike has to do more work than Snake does. Honestly Snake's [quoting Umbreon] 'degenerate crouch' which stifles our ability to start up combos is the biggest factor here, all of Snake's other tools kind of snowball the effect from there. In the calculus of how hard we punish v/s how hard we get punished, Snake wins.

 

[zaiman12345]

Ryu.
just.
Ryu.
trust me.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Ryu.
just.
Ryu.
trust me.

Wrong forum, buddy.

 

[Jake The Preacher]

Someone think they can try and break down the Kirby matchup?

 

[X0dus]

I had the same opinion you did, then I asked Pro about it. I trust his opinion more than mine, lol.

You can call 'appeal to authority' and ignore me ... but it's Pro. He probably knows what he's talking about. The MU still isn't unwinnable like I said, but Ike has to do more work than Snake does. Honestly Snake's [quoting Umbreon] 'degenerate crouch' which stifles our ability to start up combos is the biggest factor here, all of Snake's other tools kind of snowball the effect from there. In the calculus of how hard we punish v/s how hard we get punished, Snake wins.

I would probably trust his opinion over mine too. I don't know how many good or top Ikes or Snakes know the match-up besides Ally, Just, Messi, and Professor Pro to get more opinions on it.

 

[zaiman12345]

Wrong forum, buddy.

bad roy matchups.
ryu is op against roy

 

[ForgottenLabRat]

Here is a match between Messi and Just which is pretty good : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L9Y717yxyE, I suggest you watch it to see the Snake vs Ike match up at a high level.

 

[X0dus]

Here is a match between Messi and Just which is pretty good : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L9Y717yxyE, I suggest you watch it to see the Snake vs Ike match up at a high level.

I saw game 1 a while ago but I stopped watching because the commentators annoyed me. I'll just mute it this time.

 

[Zukonima]

Another example of Ike /Snake featuring Aresxblitz and Yata! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZeH8yCTwpw
Adaption from Blitz as the set goes on, he can probably post more about it
Paging @xBlitz

 

[KarmaMN]

What are match ups ike struggles with besides falco? cant seem to find a current match up thread for ike in 3.6

 

[Narelex]

What are match ups ike struggles with besides falco? cant seem to find a current match up thread for ike in 3.6

Kirby is pretty rough.

 

[PervertedPanda3]

Lucas is a can be tough matchup at high/mid level play, his combination of speed, a solid projectile and insane shield pressure lets him run train on Ike and no fast options. Getting a hit on Lucas can be super hard and Ike is a great combo weight for him.
Lucas is kind of like Falco with the easy combo weight and Ike has great edgeguards and combos on him so overall I think the matchup might be even or +1 for Lucas, it's a not some much a losing matchup but it's a stressful/struggling one in my experience.

 

[Quaza]

Jake The Preacher I struggled against Shenanigans as well in the matchup. He has beaten my Ike both times we played. The fact that you can't do anything to him when he crouches makes it unbearably difficult. Back air also destroys your recovery. When I played Marth I beat him primarily by repeatedly edge guarding him. He doesn't have the best options getting back on stage so if you can keep him cornered you're going to increase your chances. But at the end of the day it's just a losing matchup.

 

[AthleticNerd93]

ikes bad matchups are based on strategic issues with the character much more than based on power level or issues with the opponents character. ike has almost no way to exploit an opponent, he doesnt have gimps, a degenerate dashdance, he cant spam, cant camp, etc. ike wins matchups because hes heavy, fast enough to get by, and kills people really good. any matchup ike has to fight something degenerate like falco lasers, marths dashdance, kirbys crouch, hes basically going to have a hard time. any character without cheese he basically bodies. i would say ike's worst MUs are dahdance characters he cant interact with (fox marth falcon metaknight), low crouches (kirby gaw jigglypuff sheik), and characters with projectiles that really stifle his ground game (diddy ZSS falco). if they dont use those tools correctly, ike goes from losing the matchup to probably winning it.

What does the low crouching bring to the table?

 

[metroid1117]

What does the low crouching bring to the table?

Ike's standing grab is too high to grab characters like Kirby and Snake (maybe Jiggs) when they crouch, so it removes one of his most basic counters against crouch-canceling.