B-sticking with Sonic - new moves/mindgames

[pneuma14]

I don't think I'm the only one who read Panda's post about b-sticking (http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=152409&highlight=sticking+panda) and realized that it's clearly the wave of the future. (If you don't know, b-sticking is where you set the C-stick to your specials rather than your smashes. It has lots of unexpected side effects, which is why it's so cool.)

I tried it out with Sonic, and as I expected it's AWESOME for running and whipping out his bair (using auto-reverse aerial rush). That move alone was worth switching to b-stick mode. However, a few anomalies came up:

1) A curious side effect is that, if you quickly tap the C-stick forward twice while on the ground, Sonic will do his standard fspecial, but straight up in the air. (B-sticking is currently the only way I've found to do this!!) Then, if you hit the C-stick forward again, he does a regular jump, and if you hit it again, he'll do his normal fspecial (except he's way up in the air now). I found out really fast that this is a GREAT move for mindgames, e.g. running up to someone and tapping forward on the c-stick twice to razor-jump right over their heads (and then break out of it into a dair, nair, or nspecial). Try it and you'll see what I mean.

2) Sonic's equivalent of the "recoil special" (see Panda's thread) is equally bizarre. Instead of doing his fspecial, Sonic does a glitchy-looking jump where he appears to jump backwards at first, but then continues jumping up while facing forward. I can't think of any real practical application for this, but it's definitely good for mindgames. (To do this, jump foward and tap backward on the C-stick while still holding forward on the control stick.) The only way to do a _true_ recoil special with Sonic, it seems, is to jump twice. (In which case, he does what you'd expect - recoil a little bit, then do his fspecial.)

3) A downside of b-sticking, though, seems to be that you can't do Sonic's stutter-step on his fsmash. (Or at least I couldn't do it.) If anyone else can figure out how to make this work, I'm all ears.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who's been b-sticking with Sonic (or discovered these weird moves). Has anyone else discovered any cool side effects?

 

[InterimOfZeal]

b-sticking is fake, anyone who boasts about it obviously didn't know how to DI back before doing moves/during them in SSBM. They probably couldn't play CF to save their lives. Seriously, I can get the same effects with just the control stick and normal b set-up.

1) You've described JC'ing the >b. This is what he looks like when you do the infinite jump trick, and you can link it into more >b's, vB's, or anything else you'd like. Try dropping into anyone with priority after that, you're likely to get owned, especially if you timed it wrong and used your second jump. D:

2) Sounds like you've stumbled upon the spinshot via "b-sticking". That's pretty nifty.

3) You could try mapping out your smashes to the dpad, but then you'd lose taunting. As we all know, that is the best part of Sonic's game, and should never be dismissed.

Sorry if I'm incoherent/a bit of a douche. It's really late, I can't get to sleep, despite being tired/my eyes blurring, and I have to be up at 9 to get ready for a tournament. I'm not too thrilled, as I know I'm gonna be falling asleep at the tournament unless something AMAZING happens. D: D: D:

In short, just learn how to DI while simultaneously using specials, and don't listen to SamuraiPanda. He's a decent translator, but doesn't seem to know much as far as gameplay is concerned. I'd suggest keeping the c-stick to smashes, but that's my own personal preference. Do what you will.

 

[Umby]

"B-Sticking isn't that advantageous for Sonic in RAR, as you'll get better spacing through regular RAR, which stops your momentum, not to mention any ideal situation where you'll actually get a chance to bair doesn't require the instant setup that "b-sticking" offers.

 

[Aftermath]

Bsticking isn't false, it just only is good for a handful of characters. It's impossible to get the same "recoil" from Lucas's PK fire without it. If you try to do the movements as needed with the control stick you just get a B-reversal.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Odd, I can get the same distance. I use Zelda, whose Din's Fire benefits greatly from "b-sticking", and can get the same as her maximum distance. I dunno, maybe CO just too good at DI. XD

 

[pneuma14]

1) You've described JC'ing the >b. This is what he looks like when you do the infinite jump trick, and you can link it into more >b's, vB's, or anything else you'd like. Try dropping into anyone with priority after that, you're likely to get owned, especially if you timed it wrong and used your second jump. D:

I'm a noob, so bear with me: what's JC'ing? Is that the straight vertical spinshot I was describing? If so, how can you do it without b-sticking?

"B-Sticking isn't that advantageous for Sonic in RAR, as you'll get better spacing through regular RAR, which stops your momentum, not to mention any ideal situation where you'll actually get a chance to bair doesn't require the instant setup that "b-sticking" offers.

Why would you want to stop your momentum with a RAR? Isn't Sonic's whole point speed and unpredictability, making the seamless auto-RAR a better choice? I do see your point about spacing, though, and I definitely see the value of trying to mix up auto-RARs with regular RARs just to confuse your opponent, but I don't know why you'd deprive yourself of the option just because you think it's the worse of the two.

I think this whole question of which setup is better overall is debatable. It's really just a matter of which one gives you more (useful) options while sacrificing fewer (useful) options. All things being equal, even if a particular move isn't the end-all best move of all time (auto-RARing, recoil special, the weird vertical spinshot, etc.), it doesn't hurt to have it available so you can pull it out late in the game to surprise your opponent. The more versatile you are, the better, I think.

So far b-sticking seems to give you way more gameplay options while only losing the stutter-stepping fsmash (a great move, to be sure). To fix that, I think I'll take Zeal's tip (while ignoring his advice) and sacrifice my side taunts for side smashes. (I'll only have two taunts left, but that's still twice as many as there were in Melee! ) That way, I have the full selection of moves while only losing two of my taunts.

Sorry if I sound like an uppity noob in this post, but I'll never learn if I don't ask questions. Anyway, I'm just trying to figure out if b-sticking with Sonic has more pros than cons overall; that's it.

 

[Aftermath]

IoZ, I seriously doubt your DI is better than mine.

JC = Jump Cancel. He's saying that you're starting the overB and then jumping. You can do this by starting overB, holding B, then hitting up on the control stick. You can do the same with downB, but hit Y instead of using the control stick.

RARing isn't supposed to slow you down at all, and you can do it with the control stick without slowing down, but if you're a bit slow it can take come practice. For Sonic, there's no use for bsticking, as his B moves already stop your momentum when you start them. And I'd suggest against using d-pad for smashes, it seems like it'd be way more awkard to learn to do stutter stepping with two hands on one side of the controller than to just learn to RAR better.

 

[Umby]

Aftermath beat me to it.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Yeah, Aftermath, that woulda amazed me. If it weren't klap trap. That's as easy to SDI as the charge shot. You want good? Lunaris consistently SDIs to platform techs, during real matches. That easy mode stuff doesn't impress me one bit, especially since I saw you having to defend whether or not you were even going to make it outta pools at OC3.

Don't get me wrong, guy, I recognize and respect you. However, if you're going to try and argue something with me, don't post stuff that anyone can do after 15 minutes in training mode, please. Cool that you can do it consistently and all, and in melee, to boot, but I'm talking about DI'ing during actual inputs, not SDI or ASDI (does that exist in Brawl still? I haven't been trying, since i never really saw the point for ASDI, given how easy SDI was), ala CF combos.

EDIT: As is, CO has already dispelled the rumor of JC shines being faster than regular ground shines. B-sticking isn't too much more. One thing I do wonder, though:

Is zap jumping easier when you b-stick?

 

[J18]

i can't really get used to the b-sticking, i'm too used to smashing with the c-stick.
and the only actual useful thing is the auto-rar, cuz i can't do the normal rar consistently (i know, i need more practice).
but really, with sonic, b-sticking is virtually useless

 

[Juce]

<-- Aftermath

That OC3 thing was pretty ********, according to the actual rules of the tournament, I had a better record.

Anyway, getting hit by the klap trap is like 12 frames or something of hitfreeze, and in order to make it on stage, you have to smash DI 10 of those. Smash DI only accepts control stick inputs 1/4 turn away each frame, and I do 10 or more of those movements within the 12 frames. Before saying it isn't impressive, try it yourself, it really is something I doubt anyone could accomplish even in 1/2 speed after 15 minuets.

Edgeteching during matches is super easy in comparison, you need 1 smash DI out of like 5 frames usually. There's a reason I put money on the Aftermath Waveshine Challenge, I'm quite confident in my DI and Smash DI.

Anyway, hopefully I don't sound angry or anything, I just don't think you've tested the stuff that I've mentioned in the thread. If you can do Zelda's overB without bsticking and get the same momentum shift, try it with Lucas'. As I said, if you try it without the cstick, you get a Breversal if you try it. Bsticking it while holding forward makes you slide a way different distance right from the start of the move.

Edit: This is a rather obnoxious post, so I guess that if you don't accept whatever point it is I'm trying to make or something, then I'll just drop it, if you haven't already >_>. Online arguments = fail.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Nah, I'm sorry if I snapped or anything. Super late and all, and the guy you were playing in pools was obnoxious. I can do the super DI crap, too, that's why I wasn't super intimidated by it. But I'm normally able to pick up stupid technical crap pretty quickly, so whatever. I'll try actually b-sticking with lucas sometime and see if I get a noticable boost compared to my DI crap. If I don't, I'll try to post a step-by-step for my projectile DI. If I do, then gg, I was wrong. XD

LoVo got screwed in pools, too. He had the same record as Mathos, but Mathos had beaten him earlier. They had them play, LoVo 2-0'ed him, and then they changed their minds. Same with SDSG and SpiritDragon. Boss recorded himself as 2-0'ing me in pools, despite me taking a match, but I managed to get back at him by 2-0'ing him outta loser's, so it was all good. OC3 had a lot of problems, and I'm sorry for bringing it up. I really shouldn't post after 4, I tend to get kinda obnoxious myself.

EDIT: Really, it's nice to have a few known players on the Sonic boards. Sorry if I can be a bit difficult at times.

 

[pneuma14]

Well, I tried all the suggestions you guys posted here, and... yeah, you were right: anything you can do with b-sticking, you can do with c-sticking (at least for Sonic). Even Sonic's recoil special (or what I thought was his recoil special) doesn't make you recoil any more than just JC'ing in midair - and in fact, it's more versatile and controllable that way. Thanks for all the advice; I'll stick with my c-stick!