autocancel nair/fair into grab is awesome

[icraq]

as has been discussed here already, rosalina can autocancel her aerials if used right before landing, but luma will still do the attack. if you approach with this, you can combo directly into a grab with rosalina whilst luma is nairing or fairing. this works best if luma's with you and not detached, as luma also acts as a shield for your approach.

alternatively, this is really lulsy, i just figured this out, you can autocancel her nair and roll on landing and luma teleports with you doing the nair animation. hoooly god this character is awesome

it's still just a free 6% from luma but i feel like this character is going to be all about the little damages from stuff like this, such as dash attack canceled grabs giving you the bonus 3% from luma.

edit: i would really love it if someone could get video of this, the rolled nair is seriously awesome.


EDIT 2000: autocanceled bair into backroll towards opponent is so awesome too

edit 2001: autocanceled fair into fair looks like a true combo at low-mid.. good god

 

[Great_Shell]

Noob question, how do you autocancel?

 

[icraq]

Noob question, how do you autocancel?

good question
it's when you do an aerial and time it so you have no landing lag.

the best way to see rosalina's autocanceled aerials is by going into training mode and setting the time to 1/4. do a jump and right before rosalina hits the ground, hit A, you shouldn't see rosalina move AT ALL but you'll see luma do the front/back nair attack. do it too late and you'll see her do the jab attack, too soon you'll see her land on her butt (luma will still nair but this isnt autocanceled, you'll still have landing lag). you just want her to land right on her feet but luma still attacks.

 

[icraq]

i'm pretty limited in what i can record, i did this one handed, i apologize fo rgarbage quality, but it shows an examples of the right way and wrong way to do this. sorry the editing sucks.

 

[Jesse Martinez]

pretty nifty, with all the talk people are having about smooth lander among other things it could only get even better tech wise, thanks for this

 

[EOE]

Desynch combos^

This technique is quite useful. I've been testing her autocancel follow-ups since yesterday, and didn't even think to roll out of it as an approach option. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Great_Shell]

This looks hella intimidating.

Combo with a boost grab for even more damage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbobY75rM8Y

Thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/rosalina-can-grab-downed-opponents.370721/#post-17721980

 

[iimthomas]

so how do you air cancel? or whatever? im new

you said press A right when you land? i did it and was able to do it a couple of times, does this work for every aerial move?

i wish i could all the stuff you posted in that video >_<

 

[Starbound]

Desynch combos^

This technique is quite useful. I've been testing her autocancel follow-ups since yesterday, and didn't even think to roll out of it as an approach option. Thanks for sharing!

Is that some kind of cancelled dash attack at the beginning of the video?

 

[[Corn]]

Is that some kind of cancelled dash attack at the beginning of the video?

I tried replicating the stuff in the vid, and that is an autocancelled nair into a back roll into dash grab. Apparently the second hit of lumas nair always knocks them towards you.

If you roll when you desync luma it follows you, so thats why it looks funny. It does the same thing with all other air attacks.

 

[Starbound]

I tried replicating the stuff in the vid, and that is an autocancelled nair into a back roll into dash grab. Apparently the second hit of lumas nair always knocks them towards you.

What do you have to input for that to happen?

It looked amazing in the video and I'd like to learn how to perform it.

 

[[Corn]]

What do you have to input for that to happen?

It looked amazing in the video and I'd like to learn how to perform it.

Just hit A right before you hit the ground, this will cause you to do a nair, but because you were so close to the ground it wont come out.

This will cause luma's 2 hit nair to come out as it was never on the ground anyways.

Due to the fact that you arent in landing lag, you are free to input a roll whilst luma is attacking.

So the inputs would be...

A (right before hitting ground)-----R+Back(For the immediate backroll)------Dash Forward(Right after Roll)----Grab

Be aware you have to be synced with luma and the spacing required/ enemy be behind you.
It looks very swag though.

 

[icraq]

Desynch combos^

This technique is quite useful. I've been testing her autocancel follow-ups since yesterday, and didn't even think to roll out of it as an approach option. Thanks for sharing!

dude you're awesome, thanks for the video, and creative followups! i'm definitely liking spacing with the bair, because you can roll back w/ the bair and it gets a nice range boost, but **** that's hard to time. the facing away from your opponent and approaching wtih a rolled autocanceled nair is pretty awesome though

 

[EOE]

I think it's also worth mentioning that you don't have to short-hop N-air to get a guaranteed follow-up.
Fast-fall N-air from around full-hop distance will hit a grounded opponent and allows a follow-up because of the small amount of landing lag.

This is really useful because Rosalina covers a lot of space with this move and Luma will always hit the opponent in the direction it is facing with the second hit of N-air.

 

[icraq]

I think it's also worth mentioning that you don't have to short-hop N-air to get a guaranteed follow-up.
Fast-fall N-air from around full-hop distance will hit a grounded opponent and allows a follow-up because of the small amount of landing lag.

This is really useful because Rosalina covers a lot of space with this move and Luma will always hit the opponent in the direction it is facing with the second hit of N-air.

do you mean a follow up after luma hits with the last hit of the nair?

 

[icraq]

Sorry for the double post but this warranted mentioning. I started playing with sh dairs as an approach at kill percents, since it's rosalina's only aerial that autocancels in a short hop. Well I just found out that within the time you have before you hit the ground you can also throw in an EXTRA autocanceled luma aerial! This means you can sh dair into autocanceled luma fair/nair/SECOND DAIR LAG FREE, you can roll the nair as an approach, grab off the shield stun from the dair/fair. I really don't see how this is punishable, unless you start the dair too far away. But the luma dair has crazy good priority and nice knockback. Just make sure to autocancel it, it has bad landing lag.

 

[andimidna]

I tried replicating the stuff in the vid, and that is an autocancelled nair into a back roll into dash grab. Apparently the second hit of lumas nair always knocks them towards you.

If you roll when you desync luma it follows you, so thats why it looks funny. It does the same thing with all other air attacks.

Oh that was nair? Do you think this could also be done with bair (cause yknow if the player misses the auto cancel it's much safer- either doing a full bair or a side tilt (soon to be side smash tho)

I wish I could test stuff anytime I wanted to :/

 

[DelxDoom]

face away from opponent -> short hop fast fall nair (land immediately) -> dash towards opponent. increases the range of nair as a shield.

if it hits: luma nair hits them reverse, so
lower percents: turn around, dash whatever
mid percents: turn around, jump fair
higher percents: can dash and full jump towards opponent, then bair. this one is a little harder to hitconfirm since you have to jump early.

aaand video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btyngu5HOLo

 

[[Corn]]

Oh that was nair? Do you think this could also be done with bair (cause yknow if the player misses the auto cancel it's much safer- either doing a full bair or a side tilt (soon to be side smash tho)

I wish I could test stuff anytime I wanted to :/

Bair doesnt stay out for long so rolling whilst attacking isnt possible.

You can still autocancel it for the surprise kill move though.

 

[icraq]

Bair doesnt stay out for long so rolling whilst attacking isnt possible.

You can still autocancel it for the surprise kill move though.

Luma's autocanceled bair can be rolled, test it out in 1/4 time in training. Like I mentioned, it's hard to time, but if you roll as soon as you hit the ground you gain some range on it. I think it's the only attack other than nair that you can roll.

 

[andimidna]

Has it been mentioned yet that this gets her out of grabs (Luma's hit), making it a relatively save approach especially to a sheilding opponent waiting for a bair. I did a little bit of testing with this a while ago and that something I remember, not sure if it's been said yet or was just obvious though...

 

[icraq]

Has it been mentioned yet that this gets her out of grabs (Luma's hit), making it a relatively save approach especially to a sheilding opponent waiting for a bair. I did a little bit of testing with this a while ago and that something I remember, not sure if it's been said yet or was just obvious though...

never really thought about that, hmm. i still dont like empty SH as an approach. like, if you just did an empty SH towards your opponent, why not just ftilt instead? if your opponent grabbed you, luma's ftilt would still hit. there's nothing to protect you from your opponent just jumping in the air and just hitting you.

i think sh airdodge into autocanceled stuff might become a thing someday, but 90% of my time in smash is on for glory, and it's hugely difficult to incorporate autocancels with the input delay, albeit small. it's still difficult in most connections.

i haven't really had a chance to actually play with autocancels and theory craft whether they're useful as approaches. i think the best one so far really is SH double dair, it has a hitbox and it's super easy to time an autocancel before you land. plus SH double dair is somewhat of a similar rhythm to marth's old sh double fair in melee, so i can pull it off consistently. still not a great approach, but i like it out of shield.


one final thing i should note is rosalina kind of has a crappy aerial approach. nair is her only good one but if your opponent reads a nair, they can usually approach from under and punish, or sometimes with characters with a fast aerial can just jump in and hit you before your hitbox comes out front. luma does help somewhat, her little front/back attack, but good players will be killing your luma consistently and you can't rely on her entirely.