attacking DI with sonics upsmash

[Browny]

So i noticed something strage today. if you do an upsmash with sonic while facing the opposite direction as your opponent, and while its firing you pull the control stick down, then quickly do a 360* rotation to bring it back to the down position, the enemy will shoot out of the upsmash at a very low angle, slamming them into the stage next to you. If done over the edge of the stage you can shoot them down at least 45* below the horizontal. the direction you rotate seems to depend on which side you attacked them from. if you upsmashed while on the right side of the opponent, do a clockwise motion and opposite for the left side.

Another strange quirk is this only seems to work for certain %'s. i could only pull it off consistenly vs marth when (s)he was below 80%. Has this been heard of before? and do you think its worth trying to figure it out completely? personally i dont see it being very useful, just an alternate knockback. but vs a character like ike this will shoot him down off the stage enough for a single d-air or spring gimp to keep him off for good.

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video is dead lol
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I must credit the author of this article
http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/wii/file/928518/52195
for discovering the up-smash' strange knockbacks

 

[andy6915]

I did this, but not to the level you're mentioning. Instead of sending them almost straight as an arrow up like the up smash is supposed to, it sends them sideways 45 degrees ABOVE the horizontal (but again, still not straight up). I will admit, I'm probably just not doing it perfectly yet.

 

[TwinkleToes]

I'll look at this later. Seems promising if it's not just a string of coincidences. Which is possible considering how fickle Sonic's u-smash can be.

 

[Umby]

Interesting. Currently trying to do this out of a hyphen smash, but it's hard to do it when Sonic hyphen smashes from halfway across the stage.

 

[Browny]

Ok i made a video explaining this, i finally figured out the quirks as to why it wasnt working sometimes

http://www.youtube.com/v/mTQAIkXGXe4

 

[Umby]

This to an instant edgegrab could prove useful.

 

[Soloman]

though this does work this is highly situational, still a good find and good to know something that can keep the opponent on his toes.

 

[Dragonbreath]

Hmm...You said it stops working effectively at higher percents? Maybe there's another technique...

Here's an idea. Go into training mode and put the speed to the lowest. Then, try it out on a sandbag and look at the SFX. Maybe we can figure out something from there? I'd do it myself, but I can't upload videos to Youtube.

 

[ReiGun]

Just to put some numbers here in the thread, I tested it a little today and found that it's most effective at around 60% (with no DI). At about 100%, it starts sending them up as opposed to down. Nice find.

 

[andy6915]

With the video, this technique actually works like you described.

 

[Soloman]

ive only successfuly done this against a human opponent 3 times which was 2/3 matches. (not bad odds)

Best way i approached was from di. from middle to ledge and it carried it over. this works best, yeh, at 60-80%-ish.

 

[FrostByte]

Good stuff. You just nailed the secret of the upsmash spike.

 

[Hoboparty]

nice find... i'll look into it

 

[Ereki]

Yeah, this helped alot, but, just as I've seen in the video, [perhaps I didn't read another persons post in here, I apologize if I'm just reiterating facts.] the last hit can't connect in order for this to work, correct? Because I've been trying to do this myself, and it's still rather hard to do, but I suppose it's the character I'm testing it on.

EDIT: Also, on numerous occasions, I've just ended with the last hit and knocking them horizontally upwards, even while I do the anti-clockwise motion. Perhaps I'm not doing it quick enough?

 

[rmusgrave]

What's the point of this thread?

Are you saying you can control your opponent's DI with your up-smash?

That video looked like the Ike just DI'd through the upsmash then got hit by a down-hitting hitbox on the last hit.

Anyone care to enlighten me?

 

[ShadowLink84]

Yes its exactly as your second question.
Your opponents DI can be influenced by your Usmash.
Dash into a Usmash.
If you hold down on the control stick you'll notice Sonic's sort of arc's moreso than usual.
After all Sonic is technically in the air during his U smash so it would make sense. And considering the appearance of wavebouncing it makes sense.
I guess when you hold down and move the control stick anticlockwise it exaggerates the down motion of the Usmash.
Can't understand why it only knocks them down near the ledge.
It does knock them up and away from you when you're in the middle of the stage.




At higher percentages you can influence your opponents movement so that they fall towards the ground off the ledge or at a 180 degree angle when they aren't on the edge.
Considering Sonic's Usmash is easily one of the better ones out there (due to sliding) it really makes the move more versatile.

 

[rmusgrave]

So if this technique relies on your opponent not inputting any directions (i.e. no DI) then surely if they DI then you are less likely to get the desired result? I find opponents that DI up-smash usually don't get hit by the latter half of the attack and are always hit upwards.

Anyway, I shall experiment with this next chance.

 

[Kamano]

I just did some quick testing with this on a standing CPU in training, and here's a few facts I was able to discover:

From what I can tell, the circle on the control stick is entirely unneccesary. I pushed the CPU to the edge of FD by walking into him, set his damage to 60, walked to the other side so that Sonic was by the ledge, and usmashed with the C stick. No control stick movement was necessary for the CPU to fly down past the stage ledge at a low angle. I played with the control stick movement a bit and couldn't manage to come up with any result that looked any different from no input at all.

If the opponent is in the correct damage range for the usmash to hit using the downward arc, it will ALWAYS throw the opponent to the side sonic is on, no matter which direction Sonic is facing. Small illustration, S being Sonic, O being the opponent.
O S ->
<- S O

This appears to be extremely difficult or impossible via hyphen smashing. From the looks of it, if the hitboxes aren't all on the same side of the opponent right from the start of the attack, they won't be put in the correct position for the downward knockback, thus they're just sent straight up instead.

My testing was done on a CPU Luigi, but I could see that around 55-60% is where the downward angle started to become apparent, and then again between 95 and 100 the angle become horizontal, then back to directed upward.

Hitting with the very edges of the usmash hitboxes seems to still knock the opponent straight up, so you need to be fairly close.

 

[Kamano]

Some additional info I'm finding about this:

I started to do some character specific testing, and here's my findings thus far as far as the "magic numbers" at which the specific character goes from being knocked up in the air to being "spiked" at the low angle:

Mario - 49%
Luigi - 53%
Peach - 57%
Bowser - X
DK - X
Dedede - X
Diddy - 48%
Yoshi - 65% - though it's not nearly as drastic of an angle, and the most inconsistent I've come across thus far
Wario - 41% - The BEST I've found of these, at 41-44 or so, Wario goes very near to directly down.
Link - 41/44% - The ability is there at 41, but the angle is less drastic until 44%, where it becomes a more useful angle and spikes more consistently



I'm just finishing eating at the moment, I'll continue testing some more in a few minutes and add to this post

 

[thecatinthehat]

I thought this was covered in TwinkleToes AT thread already.
Zeal even said he tested this.
Highly situational. Counter-clockwise turn unnecessary.

Though I have accomplished this a couple of times in legit matches.

 

[Kamano]

I haven't gone over every page in TwinkleToes' AT topic, but this doesn't seem to be mentioned in the first post, which says it was updated 4/4

 

[Uncle Fitzy]

I should go test this out.

 

[SketchHurricane]

So it's basically just a matter of luring the opponent to the ledge at around 50%. If they know about the effect, it would be pretty hard to bait them, but I could see it being done to turn the tables on an edge guarding opponent when you recover.

 

[Browny]

yeah the turns of the control stick do seem unnecesary. it was a pain to figure out the % ranges for which this works. especially when against the heavy guys, it seems theres a minimum and a maximum %. for ike for example it seems to me to only work at about 34% - 78%. Im simply going to assume every time i rotated the control and it didnt work, it was because they werent in the % range, and everytime it did work, obviously the opposite.

i'll just re-edit and upload the video. hopefully i can add some more % numbers to it and detail it. ill leave the old vid up for now.

 

[Kamano]

Yeah, if you look at my post a little ways up, I started on finding the exact "magic numbers" for where the upsmash turns into a spike. It seems impossible to do against Bowser, DK, and D3, and I haven't gone through enough of the list yet to determine if there are any more characters that it doesn't work against.

My testing method if anyone's interested in picking up where I left off:

CPU set to stand
Walk into the CPU to push them to the edge of FD
Usmash over and over until it started spiking, at which point I would backtrack and manually set their damage 10% or so lower than when the first spike occurred, and then worked my way up or down from there to find the very first point at which the upsmash spiked
As for the ones that didn't work; I just kept upsmashing them until they died off the top, which occurred somewhere above 180 for each of them. Even if the spike effect started to occur at a later %, it was safe to assume that it was already out of the range of viable use, so it wouldn't really matter if you can spike a bowser who's between 275 and 290.

 

[Jaz]

this doesn't work if your opponent DI's Upward
and the control stick turns are unnecessary

T-T

**** it i thought we had a gimp on our hands

 

[Browny]

Im not so sure about the opponent able to DI out of it. my brother has never been able to escape it, provided of course he is in the % range for which this works