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Ask a networking question, get a simple answer

Randofu

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 10, 2007
Messages
219
Location
Maryland, USA
I am a graduate student in Networking. I'm currently surveying online games to get a sense of how well they perform, what latencies are required to use them, etc. I'm also a Brawl fan, so some of you may have seen me around here before.

I finally got around to surveying Brawl a little bit today, and what I saw when reading these forums was reprehensible. I have avoided Brawl's online play (and discussion thereof) like the plague, after my initial advice that Brawl's online play would not work very well (before the game came out) met with so much scorn. Now, I see that people have been giving some very misguided advice in some cases, so I'd like to try to help with that as much as I can.

Before I call for questions, I will confirm that the following advice is correct:

1) Using a wired connection will reduce lag. As far as I can tell, this probably isn't due to wireless interference. I'm not exactly sure what the cause is, but some people have suggested shoddy wireless cards (which would make sense with Nintendo's hardware philosophy).

2) Reducing downloads from other computers which share your connection will reduce lag. I think this is obvious, but basically your downloads can cause your connection to the Internet to become congested, which results in packet delays and drops, both of which contribute to lag in Brawl.

3) Playing opponents near you in terms of NETWORK LATENCY is the only way to get acceptable performance. Someone can be near you geographically but far away from you in terms of network latency, especially if you use different ISPs. I don't really have the time to make something like this, but someone could try to set up a network coordinate system such as Pyxida to try to discover Brawl players who have low latency.

With those out of the way, if you have any other networking questions I can try to answer them for you. I may need to run a few tests or look into some research papers before I can get back to you on certain questions. For specific ISP information I might not be too helpful. I'll try my best though.
 

Bent 00

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 10, 2007
Messages
190
Location
USA
Hi Randofu, it's Bent 00 from GameFAQs. I posted another response for you in the topic "Possible lag fix?! YouTube link, technical opinions needed. Please read."

I don't really have the time to make something like this, but someone could try to set up a network coordinate system such as Pyxida to try to discover Brawl players who have low latency.

This sounds like a good idea...
 

Randofu

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 10, 2007
Messages
219
Location
Maryland, USA
As for finding your friend's IP address, if each of you just go to http://www.whatismyip.com and tell the other what it says, that should be enough. There are a lot of other ways to do it, but this is the easiest way and probably the most reliable since a lot of people are sitting behind wireless routers in their homes.

As for figuring out your and a friend's ISP, you can use the Whois tool: http://tools.whois.net/whoisbyip/

That will tell you a bunch of information about your IP address based on which registered subnet you're in. Still, it's a better bet to just use ping to measure the latency between you and your friend.
 

X6488

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 7, 2002
Messages
229
Location
California
How do I get my wired connection working?

1)I bought aLAN adapter from DealExtreme (seen here: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5926)
2) I hooked the LAN adapter to my Wii
3)Connected a CAT-5 from my router to my adapter.
4) Tried to get my wired connection... and... Error code: 51421

So, I've not a clue what to do. My Internet is definitely working (I'm on it right now!) and my CAT-5 works.
Also, it might be worthy to mention that the adapter came with a driver disc. However, the Wii couldn't read it, and my server has no disc drive. If I do need the driver for my PC, can I install it from some place?
 

AnorieN

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
13
There are programs such as Hamchi, which basicly tricks your pc into thinking you´re having a LAN with the other users in the same Hamachi-room. This has by some way, at least in Warcraft III, reduced the lag. Could it be possible to use some kind of solution similar in Brawl? (We have two USB-ports ^_^)
 

Randofu

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 10, 2007
Messages
219
Location
Maryland, USA
How do I get my wired connection working?

1)I bought aLAN adapter from DealExtreme (seen here: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5926)
2) I hooked the LAN adapter to my Wii
3)Connected a CAT-5 from my router to my adapter.
4) Tried to get my wired connection... and... Error code: 51421

So, I've not a clue what to do. My Internet is definitely working (I'm on it right now!) and my CAT-5 works.
Also, it might be worthy to mention that the adapter came with a driver disc. However, the Wii couldn't read it, and my server has no disc drive. If I do need the driver for my PC, can I install it from some place?
Is your router configured to accept the connection from the Wii? That's the only thing that I can think of. Maybe you have MAC address filtering turned on, and you haven't entered the Wii's MAC address as an allowed machine? I'm not sure if the LAN adapter uses a different MAC address, but I doubt that it does.

As for the driver disc... I don't understand why there even was one. You don't need any drivers at all for your PC to use the USB LAN adapter; you should just be able to plug it into the Wii and set up a wired connection under the network settings.
 

Randofu

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 10, 2007
Messages
219
Location
Maryland, USA
There are programs such as Hamchi, which basicly tricks your pc into thinking you´re having a LAN with the other users in the same Hamachi-room. This has by some way, at least in Warcraft III, reduced the lag. Could it be possible to use some kind of solution similar in Brawl? (We have two USB-ports ^_^)
Without really knowing what it does, I can't say whether this would actually help.
 

Mac Matrix

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
65
Location
Lincolnshire, UK
This may sound a stupid question, but I'll ask and hope it makes sense.

What's the best UK ISP to play Brawl on?

I ask this because (like I said in that 'it's not Nintendo's fault, it's you' topic) My current broadband / ISP absolutely sucks for online matches on Brawl. I mean half-second buttonlag bad.

I'm just wondering whether certain ISPs may have better gaming-related Internet. Currently I'm on Orange (formerly Freeserve) with a 2m/bit speed (which is solely related to my crap geographical location).

Also a second, more straight-forward question - does enabling the router's firewall restrict or hamper the online at all? I can connect to WFC with it enabled but I've kept it turned off just in case.
 

Randofu

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 10, 2007
Messages
219
Location
Maryland, USA
This may sound a stupid question, but I'll ask and hope it makes sense.

What's the best UK ISP to play Brawl on?

I ask this because (like I said in that 'it's not Nintendo's fault, it's you' topic) My current broadband / ISP absolutely sucks for online matches on Brawl. I mean half-second buttonlag bad.

I'm just wondering whether certain ISPs may have better gaming-related Internet. Currently I'm on Orange (formerly Freeserve) with a 2m/bit speed (which is solely related to my crap geographical location).
I don't really know much about UK ISPs (or the details of many American ISPs for that matter - they tend to keep very tight-lipped about their network details). The best advice I can think of would be to find several people you'd like to play against who are all relatively nearby on the same ISP as each other, and use that ISP. Or, just try to find people on your current ISP.

I'm sure that some ISPs are better than others, but I can't really say which ones. You could ask for the ISPs of the people who say they have good performance, and try to use the one that comes up most often.

Also a second, more straight-forward question - does enabling the router's firewall restrict or hamper the online at all? I can connect to WFC with it enabled but I've kept it turned off just in case.
As far as I can tell, it doesn't affect it much at all, except cutting out a few microseconds of processing time for the firewall. I'm pretty sure that the WFC handles all of the goofy stuff that can happen with a NAT. The only way in which a firewall is going to affect you is if it completely shuts down your connection. Since that's not the case, you should be fine.
 

Ralk

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
17
Location
Pennsylvania
If you've tried the "With Anyone" mode, I'm sure you've experienced games that slow progressively until they're unplayable. I've noticed that during this extreme lag, if I walk over to my computer, I can't even browse the web. My normal internet capabilities return the moment I exit the brawl game. Thus, I can only conclude that something in Brawl's wifi protocol is sucking up all my bandwidth - just during those periods of extreme lag. My question is: what's going on here? and does this shed any light on why we experience extreme lag in certain wifi matches?

My theory is that someone's connection dropped so Brawl continues to flood my connection with packets until it's absolutely sure someone has disconnected. Is this plausible?

In case it's relevant, my wii is connected to my computer through the nintendo wifi usb connector. I have a stable DSL connection that performs very well for all other online gaming.
 

Randofu

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 10, 2007
Messages
219
Location
Maryland, USA
If you've tried the "With Anyone" mode, I'm sure you've experienced games that slow progressively until they're unplayable. I've noticed that during this extreme lag, if I walk over to my computer, I can't even browse the web. My normal internet capabilities return the moment I exit the brawl game. Thus, I can only conclude that something in Brawl's wifi protocol is sucking up all my bandwidth - just during those periods of extreme lag. My question is: what's going on here? and does this shed any light on why we experience extreme lag in certain wifi matches?

My theory is that someone's connection dropped so Brawl continues to flood my connection with packets until it's absolutely sure someone has disconnected. Is this plausible?

In case it's relevant, my wii is connected to my computer through the nintendo wifi usb connector. I have a stable DSL connection that performs very well for all other online gaming.
I don't know what the cause of this is, and my Wii is unfortunately on the fritz so I can't test it out myself.

However, it seems unlikely that their strategy would be to flood the connection with packets. This would cause a lot of queuing, which would result in higher latencies and dropped packets, which is what they would want to avoid the most.

I wonder if maybe the reason that these matches continue to get worse and worse is because of queuing. It's possible that because of the rate with which Brawl tries to send packets, it causes queuing which slowly increases the latencies for every subsequent packet. I hope that this isn't the case, and that they'd use some kind of congestion control mechanism to avoid this.

This is interesting though... I'll have to look into it further.
 

Ralk

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
17
Location
Pennsylvania
I'll certainly be interested in whatever you can turn up on the matter. Thanks for bringing some actual technical knowledge to this forum - there's far too much misinformation floating around here.
 

AnorieN

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
13
Without really knowing what it does, I can't say whether this would actually help.
Well... What the program basically does, is bypassing Blizzards servers. So if we had a way to bypass Nintendos servers, we could reduce the latency, right?
 
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