Ask a Lucas Main!

[Malk]

Since we don't have a general place for discussion of basic Lucas techniques I thought I'd make one. Feel free to post any question and the Lucas players can answer or talk about it here. I've been playing Lucas only for the last couple of weeks now and I feel pretty comfortable flinging theorycraft around.

 

[Hardcorenesser]

I hope this isn't anything like your ******* useless video. But ya... i was wondering, in what frame does lucas's bair spike them?

 

[Aevin]

I don't know about FRAMES, but I have luck spiking if I just pretend the move is a down aerial. Attack an opponent directly beneath you. Think of Ness's or Zelda's spike, and use his back aerial in the same way.

 

[BulgyMilk]

His dair is also a spike (one of the hits anyway) it's less of a spike than his bair, but I find it surprises people alot, and gives another option for intercepting...Yeah I play Lucas alot, so far my...top 3 characters...after R.O.B. and Olimar.

I'll also try to answer other questions as best I can, also brawl is amazing

 

[Kuronekokun]

Would you call these characters Lucas counters?

-Kirby (Not sure why, but I suck at fighting Kirby... I think it's the character size vs. PK fire - similar to Toon Link.)
-Pit (Angle Ring + Shield = no PK fire approach?)
-Toon Link (Too small to hit with PK fire / Fsmash gets me all the time with the two hits + quick speed...)
-MetaKnight (oddly enough, I couldn't seem to do much against a MK that spams B moves...)

And do you have any tips for fighting them as Lucas?

 

[Aevin]

Hmm. For some reason, I have no trouble against Kirby ... One thing to know ... avoid up smashes and PK Thunders when he's above you, because he'll almost always counter with his rock attack, making him invincible and able to bash you through your attacks. When he does use the rock move, try to be near him to either grab or to hit him in the instant he pops out. If he eats you, be sure to absorb any PK Freeze attacks he uses. Also, when he uses his final cutter and lands on solid ground, you can absorb the shock wave.

Pit's a tough one. I like to approach him with neutral aerials. If placed right, they'll go through him and over the top of his shield. Also, if he shields your PKT2, there's certain angles or distances that will go right through and hit him, too. Forward tilts are your friend vs just about any foe. They're very quick and have admirable range, and can be angled up or down. If he's below the stage, I'd say give chase. Pit's flying recovery is easy to cancel, and I believe he only can do it once before having to land. Pit's at his most vulnerable when he's trying to recover, especially when fairly low relative to the stage. Do not try to attack him from above in the air; he's got great counter moves for that angle. If he shoots you as you try to recover (as my opponent always does) be ready to use PK Magnet.

Toon Link - I haven't fought many, but I'd say you should make good use of Lucas's longer-ranged attacks, such as his forward tilt, and dash attack. Also, I bet he's easier than some to land up smashes with. Try to predict or bait him into down aerials, then either dodge and capitalize, or counter with an up smash. Don't challenge him in the air--his range and power will outdo you all the time. If you send him flying, pursue him and try to bounce him off the stage with moves like PK Fire and Thunder, or the forward aerial. Toon Link I think is best suited to aerial combat. His projectiles are inferior to Lucas's, so force him to compete on that level.

Meta Knight -This guy's tough for Lucas (I usually switch to Ness). Projectiles are your friend. As always, try to use your longest ranged attacks to avoid getting near him. As I recall, PK Fire hits him out of his tornado attack. Make good use of PK Thunder while he's in the air. This is one opponent it might not be best to pursue out over the ledge. The multiple jumps and quick, wide-ranged attacks will beat you if you try. Instead, try to PK Thunder or Freeze. Also, I think he's weaker from the bottom, so if he goes up don't let him come down.

I wouldn't consider any of these characters Lucas counters. The ones I have the most trouble with are Dedede, ROB and Ivysaur--characters able to challenge Lucas's range, keeping him at a distance so he can't land his more powerful attacks. Kirby, in particular, I think can be defeated with relative ease once you're used to him.

 

[Bronze]

Something noteworthy vs pit is that you can absorb his arrows with D+B. So if Pit doesn;t use them then thats good as they are very annoying, and if he does, then you gain some considerable % back. Can't say I know much about the rest of the matchup, but at least Pit can't camp you.

 

[Percon]

Kirby: Not too hard... you outrange a lot of his stuff, though he can probably edgeguard you pretty easily.

Pit: PSI magnet. Absorbs his arrows, so he can't camp you now, and he'll have to approach, otherwise you gain %. Take advantage of that.

Toon Link: A beat. You can't absorb his projectiles, so he and outcamp you, and he has superior combos. Most likely out of all of these to be a Lucas counter.

MK: Wouldn't really know, not a lot of MK experience... though you do have a range/projectile advantage, so you can be really campy.

 

[BentoBox]

(I usually switch to Ness)

Traitor. :[

 

[Calibretto2103]

What do you think a good strat against Ike would be? i generaly try to stay away from him and PK Fire him

 

[motherfan]

What are his 3 taunts? Does he still point at the sky like in his DOJO profile? Thanks.

 

[Percon]

What do you think a good strat against Ike would be? i generaly try to stay away from him and PK Fire him

Also, learn to powershield/spotdodge. Your smashes start faster than his end (and by that I mean your fsmash). He'll either try to approach with >B (get on a platform then punish him after) or with aerials. All of his aerials except for bair are laggy - you can punish him for that. Abuse projectiles, like you said, and nair out of shield (works pretty well after shielding his jab combo)

Taunts:

Up taunt: He stumbles and trips, falls on his rear

Side taunt: Takes out the rope snake and they "converse"

Down taunt: Does some flashy hand swipe with PSI energy

 

[Aevin]

(I usually switch to Ness)

Traitor. :[

Heh. I'm maining both boys, okay? I give no favoritism to either. I believe the two are best used as a duo, because there are some opponents that are really, REALLY difficult with each of them, and the other is better suited.

As for fighting Ike ... I have a lot of experience on that one. For starters, stay away from him when he's trying to recover from below the ledge. His up B recovery is really painful. In fact, try to avoid being above him at all. Your best position is to be a good distance away on the ground. As far as speed, his forward B is the only option. Anticipate it and counter with PK Fire, or dodge and capitalize. Ike's at his most vulnerable when he's trying to recover horizontally back to the ledge. Jump out there and challenge him. Pretty much his only option is his forward B, and you can use PK Fire or simply jump in the way so he comes up short of the ledge. Ike's supposed to be slow, but many of his moves come out fairly quickly considering his power. The trick is that they have a lot of lag AFTER them. Dodge around him to trick him into attacking, and then **** his lag for all its worth. Oh, and watch out for his down aerial--it's a very reliable spiking move.

 

[Kuronekokun]

Thanks, awesome advice so far :D

To continue about Lucas counters... are there any characters that have a vivid rock-paper-scissors type of advantage over Lucas? (in other words, any "I recommend switching to an alt against ____!" type of match-ups?)

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Thanks, awesome advice so far :D

To continue about Lucas counters... are there any characters that have a vivid rock-paper-scissors type of advantage over Lucas? (in other words, any "I recommend switching to an alt against ____!" type of match-ups?)

I know that Lucas is a VERY good match against Zelda and Pikachu, since his PSI Magnet can effectively stop them from using Din's Fire and thunder. Because of the way these moves come out, you should be able to absorb them every time without worrying about being punished if you see them coming.

 

[Aevin]

Personally, a skilled Dedede absolutely murders me.

I would think anyone who outdoes him in range is going to be difficult. I actually think he does fairly poorly against the slow, powerful characters who have range. For some reason, Dedede and ROB are the only ones who come to mind. Projectiles go a long way, but they can only get you so far. Lucas can peck at people all he wants. If he can't get close enough to finish them, it doesn't matter one bit. Dedede also has Waddle-dees, and I end up hitting THOSE with projectiles instead of him. I also have trouble with Wolf, though not as much as the others. He can be evil because he's quite fast and has that wretched reflector.

 

[Calibretto2103]

As for fighting Ike ... I have a lot of experience on that one. For starters, stay away from him when he's trying to recover from below the ledge. His up B recovery is really painful. In fact, try to avoid being above him at all. Your best position is to be a good distance away on the ground. As far as speed, his forward B is the only option. Anticipate it and counter with PK Fire, or dodge and capitalize. Ike's at his most vulnerable when he's trying to recover horizontally back to the ledge. Jump out there and challenge him. Pretty much his only option is his forward B, and you can use PK Fire or simply jump in the way so he comes up short of the ledge. Ike's supposed to be slow, but many of his moves come out fairly quickly considering his power. The trick is that they have a lot of lag AFTER them. Dodge around him to trick him into attacking, and then **** his lag for all its worth. Oh, and watch out for his down aerial--it's a very reliable spiking move.

Great advice btw.. but now i have a new problem with Ike. Seems after i owned him too hard with my new tactics hes switched up his game. My friend now has the tatic of using his air attacks against mine. his always seem to overide me. now hes got me running and i dont know what to do. I cant bust through his air attacks with by Dair or Fair

 

[Malk]

Sorry guys! When I made this thread smashboards was lagging so I didn't think I actually made it, hence my absense.

As for matchups - Ike seemed hard until I realized I was faster with every single move. Definitely work on defensive techniques. He has ridiculous range though, very deceptive. I lost the first couple of matches to him because I didn't realize how far his sword reaches. If you shield an aerial, also, it will slide you out an incredible amount, so punishing is not as easy as it seems. It's a game of spacing, just trick them into being in your range, and your attacks should come out on top. Basically, just be in his face and doing quick attacks, and you should be fine. Watch out for his grab though, it's basically his quickest ground move.

The hardest matchups I've had are against Marth, Toon Link, and Metaknight. Any character with a sword makes your life hell, as disjointed hitboxes just seem to **** Lucas. You can spam pk fire against marth and metaknight, but with a little bit of practice it's not too hard for them to close in on you anyway.

Pit is interesting, but if he is using mirror shield or the other thing to reflect PK Fires, you shouldn't be worried. If you do a short hop pk fire right, it should hit either his head (I haven't perfected this timing yet) or the top of either reflecting move, making the pk fire go OVER your head on the return. And then, of course, he is spamming moves that suck, so just short hop feint a pk fire and then grab/downair/etc.

Also, against characters htat spam physical projectiles (ivysaur, toon link, big link, ddd) the bat has been surprisingly effective. If you remember Ness could reflect projectiles with his bat in melee, but it's incredibly easy to do now. Practice for a minute and you'll have it down. Just slam the c-stick whenever they are camping and you'll send **** back at them, making them hesitate, akin to power-shielding Falco's lasers in melee.