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Armada's Shield Pressure at TBH6

Discussion in 'Peach' started by Sycorax, Oct 27, 2016.

  1. Sycorax

    Sycorax
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    Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2014
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    It could have been better. DruggedFox and Leffen have publicly criticized Peach players for not performing their shield pressure in the right ways. I have written in depth about Peach's shield pressure and the mixups around it. The important threshold is at +2 or better on shield. If this is achieved, then dsmash/grab becomes a true mixup. Dsmash will beat rolls and Fox's shine OoS. This can only be achieved with well timed fairs on shield or by fastfalling nairs and bairs before the hitlag of the move. Here are some gifs showing what this looks like: +3 nair, +4 bair (turn on HD to see 60fps). If the fastfall occurs after the hitlag, the best Peach can achieve is +1 shield advantage.

    If nair or bair are stale even in the slightest (which they usually are), they will do 1 fewer frame of shieldhitstun. This makes a "normal" nair or bair be +0. If you fastfall before the hitlag, they will be +2 at worst which is still enough for dsmash to cover roll and shine OoS.

    Here is a list of times at TBH6 when Armada could have done a fastfall before the hitlag of the aerial without changing the effectiveness of the aerial while also increasing advantage on shield.

    Nair:
    https://youtu.be/7Lr0puvFxdk?t=147
    https://youtu.be/8B0AY3EA4Xc?t=78
    https://youtu.be/8B0AY3EA4Xc?t=726
    https://youtu.be/8B0AY3EA4Xc?t=1098
    https://youtu.be/8B0AY3EA4Xc?t=1984
    Bair:
    https://youtu.be/8B0AY3EA4Xc?t=23
    https://youtu.be/8B0AY3EA4Xc?t=209
    https://youtu.be/8B0AY3EA4Xc?t=465
    https://youtu.be/8B0AY3EA4Xc?t=744
    https://youtu.be/8B0AY3EA4Xc?t=1453
    https://youtu.be/7JQdxPmzQcY?t=151
    https://youtu.be/7JQdxPmzQcY?t=310 (he could not have gotten a +4 bair here but he could FF sooner)

    There is a bit of a tradeoff when doing these quick fastfall FC aerials. It makes the aerial active for 1 or 2 frames fewer in most cases. Because of this the player should use discretion and think carefully about the purpose of the FC aerial they're using is.

    Addendum: It's more or less impossible to do an instant ground float FF +3 nair since it requires going from holding down, letting go, then pressing down again in 3 frames. It is possible to do an instant float FF +3 bair though since it has 5 frames between letting go of down and pressing down again. A bair performed like this is weird. If it hits your opponent's shield, you'll be +3 (+2 stale) on shield. If it misses, the weird ECB stuff makes it so that you land before the hitbox comes out. If you float for 3 or more frames before starting your bair, you avoid weird ECB **** and can do a FF bair that is up to +4 on shield.
     
    #1 Sycorax, Oct 27, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2016
  2. Eposa

    Eposa
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    At this float height do you know what + you can achieve with uair and would it be practical mixup?
     
  3. COB

    COB
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    Dec 25, 2014
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    If I had to give an educated guess it would be that uair is on shield, when done correctly, is roughly the same as nair? The times I have done uair on shield it seems to be a similar + as nair. I think it is a practical mixup. It has less range than nair but if you are close enough for it work it is probably good. Has a stronger punish if they jump oos etc
     
  4. Eposa

    Eposa
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    Smash Rookie

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    Jan 18, 2018
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    @Sycorax would this mean that instant ground float uair can more easily net +4/+3 on shield since you have more frames to go from down-up-down vs nair which seems to not be able to achieve +3 practically?
     
  5. CAUP

    CAUP
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    Smash Journeyman

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2014
    Messages:
    333
    Yes. So dair isn't plus on sheild obviously. Nair can max be +3 unless you link float cancel which is situational. Bair can be +4 but you have to either turn around for at least a frame or be super inside their shield (if you want to grab). Up air is a practical alternative and can be +4. Also keep in mind their ranges and speeds and whether they are stale. That's a lot to take in and no one is really there yet.
     

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