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Are there bad characters???

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goateeguy

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I'm just wondering if there is any character who is consistently unusable for many people. Every character I once considered bad can be used amazingly by certain people. FYI i will not disclose the chars i thought were bad, cuz someones gonna get all :mad: at me.
 

Xsyven

And how!
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This is probably the depthiest game ever created. Nothing as simple as 'Good or Bad' characters exist.
 

blaargh198

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I'm just wondering if there is any character who is consistently unusable for many people. Every character I once considered bad can be used amazingly by certain people. FYI i will not disclose the chars i thought were bad, cuz someones gonna get all :mad: at me.
Winner of the "Profoundly Redundant Post of the Day" Award XD
Search function.
 

Pye

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Well, look at players like Neo, Taj, Chu and Dire. All of them play low tier characters and are well known for their skill at those characters.

Neo's Roy has beaten Husband's Marth, and he competed with Ken. Even though he lost that match, he put up a good fight. His Roy has defeated several players he "shouldn't" have been able to beat, many of which can be found on youtube. Watch this guy play.

Taj 0-death's Fox and Falco all the time with his Mewtwo. He can beat Forward's Falco, and Forward is respected and looked up to by many, myself included. While he does do best against fastfallers, it's not just them he beats ether. I've seen matches where he tears apart even floaty chars, including Peach and Samus. You have not experienced life to the fullest if you have never seen Taj's Mewtwo.

Chu mains the IC's, but those guys aren't who I'm talking about. I'm refering to his Pichu. Chu has beaten good players with his Pichu, and once again, I advise you to watch this guy play. It's pretty amazing.

And of course, Dire's famous G&W. He lost to M2K's Fox, but the match was so close, it was scary. Watch this guy play too.

So...my theory is that no, there are no bad characters. People just don't have the patience to learn the ones that are less used. I mean, how many people can do what Taj's Mewtwo can? Not many. But if more people acualy took the time to main Mewtwo, maybe they could.
 

GimpFinkle

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Well, look at players like Neo, Taj, Chu and Dire. All of them play low tier characters and are well known for their skill at those characters.

Neo's Roy has beaten Husband's Marth, and he competed with Ken. Even though he lost that match, he put up a good fight. His Roy has defeated several players he "shouldn't" have been able to beat, many of which can be found on youtube. Watch this guy play.

Taj 0-death's Fox and Falco all the time with his Mewtwo. He can beat Forward's Falco, and Forward is respected and looked up to by many, myself included. While he does do best against fastfallers, it's not just them he beats ether. I've seen matches where he tears apart even floaty chars, including Peach and Samus. You have not experienced life to the fullest if you have never seen Taj's Mewtwo.

Chu mains the IC's, but those guys aren't who I'm talking about. I'm refering to his Pichu. Chu has beaten good players with his Pichu, and once again, I advise you to watch this guy play. It's pretty amazing.

And of course, Dire's famous G&W. He lost to M2K's Fox, but the match was so close, it was scary. Watch this guy play too.

So...my theory is that no, there are no bad characters. People just don't have the patience to learn the ones that are less used. I mean, how many people can do what Taj's Mewtwo can? Not many. But if more people acualy took the time to main Mewtwo, maybe they could.
Chu(pichu) vs. Korn(marth)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHWbk8YXPok

Dire(gw) vs. M2K(fox)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7K2v41rh9oE

neo(roy) vs. husband(marth)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dq244s9hYs

Taj's Mewtwo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd1FFTsecW4
 

KevinM

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edit- sorry about double post... i didn't think the quick reply button stacked and i thought my comp froze feel free to delete this one if possible.. sorry about that again still learning. :)
 

KevinM

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There is no such thing as a bad character... people like Taj use low-tier characters to their fullest possible potential. Tiers may mean that a character basically has a higher probability of winning but it depends all on the players. Thats where the depth of this game comes from.
 

GimpFinkle

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There is no such thing as a bad character... people like Taj use low-tier characters to their fullest possible potential. Tiers may mean that a character basically has a higher probability of winning but it depends all on the players. Thats where the depth of this game comes from.
In my opinion, there shouldn't even be a need for a tier list. The tier list was made from observations of pros and the way they play there characters. The truth is that all characters are so well balanced with each other (even if the characters are so much different about the way of playing them) that if the two best pros played with there character from opposite ends of the tier list, it will be a close match no matter what (depending on the number of suicides).

I'm not saying that the tier list is a bad resource, I use it and recommend it all the time.
I'm saying that if you want to be the best with a character, you can. There is no probability of winning at all when thinking back to the tier list.

That's were the depth of this game comes from. If your good of course:laugh:
 

Pye

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Yeah, acualy those are the exact matches I used as reference xD. Thanks for linking to them. Excellent demonstration of skill there.

I'd also like to link to these matches between Luke and Eddie. I THINK Luke is Gimpyfish here on smashboards, someone's going to need to confirm that? Not only is this Bowser INCREDIBLE, but Luke is hilarious. All must-sees

Luke (Bowser) vs Eddie (Sheik)

Luke (Bowser) vs Eddie (Falcon)
 

GimpFinkle

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Yeah, acualy those are the exact matches I used as reference xD. Thanks for linking to them. Excellent demonstration of skill there.

I'd also like to link to these matches between Luke and Eddie. I THINK Luke is Gimpyfish here on smashboards, someone's going to need to confirm that? Not only is this Bowser INCREDIBLE, but Luke's is hilarious. All must-sees

Luke (Bowser) vs Eddie (Sheik)

Luke (Bowser) vs Eddie (Falcon)

Those videos are sweet, i love there awesome commentary. If anyone felt they shouldn't watch thouse videos you have to now. you can learn a lot from luke's mind games and predictions.

Score with the awesome vids Pye:)
 

A-Laon

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There are no "bad" characters, just some more difficult to win with. Overcome that added difficulty, and you'll win, regardless of character.
 

Pose

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This thread is now ********. It was stated that of course there are now good or bad characters as gimpfinkle and pye have showed. There are only good or bad players. Thats where everything lies. Done >.<
 

Zink

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Nah. there are bad characters. There are just really good players. Sure, Gimpyfish or Taj can own with bad characters, but the large majority of Bowsers and Mewtwos get beaten by Fox, Falco, Marth, Peach etc...
 

GimpFinkle

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Nah. there are bad characters. There are just really good players. Sure, Gimpyfish or Taj can own with bad characters, but the large majority of Bowsers and Mewtwos get beaten by Fox, Falco, Marth, Peach etc...
Good to have a change of opinion in here. Well Zink, are you saying that most Bowser and Mewtwo players arn't that good or are you saying that a Fox or Falco player is usually a better player in the first sence?
 

F8AL

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In my opinion there is no bad character. As long are there are pro bowser players and bad fox players, then there is no real answer. Just my two cents. >>
 

Pye

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Nah. there are bad characters. There are just really good players. Sure, Gimpyfish or Taj can own with bad characters, but the large majority of Bowsers and Mewtwos get beaten by Fox, Falco, Marth, Peach etc...
A good point, but if that was true, wouldn't Taj be like the best player in the world with his Fox? For him to be so good (according to your theory) that his Mewtwo owns the way it does, his Fox should be inhuman. Mewtwo and Fox both take equally fast hands to play, especially the way Taj plays him.

I still think it's just the way some people see of playing characters. I'm not about to say all characters are equal, that's silly. But I think their all closer together then people think. Fox obviously has an advantage, so he'll be "easier" to win with, but Mewtwo can win too (assume tech skill is good).

By the way, GimpyFinkle, your sig made me lol. Dictionary.com ftw.
 

greenblob

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Well, look at players like Neo, Taj, Chu and Dire. All of them play low tier characters and are well known for their skill at those characters.

Neo's Roy has beaten Husband's Marth, and he competed with Ken. Even though he lost that match, he put up a good fight. His Roy has defeated several players he "shouldn't" have been able to beat, many of which can be found on youtube. Watch this guy play.

Taj 0-death's Fox and Falco all the time with his Mewtwo. He can beat Forward's Falco, and Forward is respected and looked up to by many, myself included. While he does do best against fastfallers, it's not just them he beats ether. I've seen matches where he tears apart even floaty chars, including Peach and Samus. You have not experienced life to the fullest if you have never seen Taj's Mewtwo.

Chu mains the IC's, but those guys aren't who I'm talking about. I'm refering to his Pichu. Chu has beaten good players with his Pichu, and once again, I advise you to watch this guy play. It's pretty amazing.

And of course, Dire's famous G&W. He lost to M2K's Fox, but the match was so close, it was scary. Watch this guy play too.

So...my theory is that no, there are no bad characters. People just don't have the patience to learn the ones that are less used. I mean, how many people can do what Taj's Mewtwo can? Not many. But if more people acualy took the time to main Mewtwo, maybe they could.
Yes...but Neo's Marth and Sheik are better than his Roy, Taj's Fox is better than his Mewtwo, Chu's IC is better than his Pichu, and Dire...does he play anyone else?
Anyway, the fact that certain characters are common in winning tournament matches and others very rarely see wins in the metagame should be proof enough that the tier list is more or less accurate.

Much of the confusion over the tier list comes from the fact that it only applies among the best players. There are separate theoretical tier lists for each level of play.
 

pdk

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There are separate theoretical tier lists for each level of play.
players usually have a random (the key word here) assortment of little tidbits of knowledge about the game that becomes more complete as they get better, you sure tier lists would even be viable for certain levels of play?
 

greenblob

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players usually have a random (the key word here) assortment of little tidbits of knowledge about the game that becomes more complete as they get better, you sure tier lists would even be viable for certain levels of play?
I'd say yes, roughly speaking, and assuming that players pick mains. Generally speaking, an intermediate Fox is probably weaker than an intermediate Sheik. Of course, much of it is theoretical, since you can't have a tournament for intermediate players only, and all skill levels other than pro are very vague and theoretical.
Your statement applies to the pro level--every pro can probably beat me with Climbers, but Chu's still the best with them because he knows how to use them best. Likewise, players have mains--they don't spread themselves out with every character (except Azen). Yet the tier list exists.
 

AlphaZealot

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There are worse characters, there has to be when every character has differant attributes.

Quick examples.

You have 5 characters, every one with the same moves and attributes.

You then give one character a 25% speed boost, and another character a 25% speed decrease.

You now have a three tier system.

SSBM is not like rock paper scissors involving 26 characters (or like Starcraft).
 
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