I've never been a fan of counters, but I'm even less of a fan in this game. For example, playing as Ganon vs Little Mac today - Warlock Punch, up tilt, Smash Attacks - they were useless. I would just get countered back with twice the damage. I mean, I know it will work better for edge guarding, but... am I the only one looking at counters as, not only OP, but heck of annoying as well? I mean, it's like, when facing a counter oponent, you can never feels safe. Never.
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Are Counters too OP?
- Thread starter WwwWario
- Start date
PeachPlumPear
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2014
- Messages
- 34
It's incredibly easy to punish a failed counter and most of them can't kill you until after other moves.
So no.
So no.
LIQUID12A
Smash Modder
If you're being predictable, the fault lies on you. Smart players inherently know what a predictable player does and they can get free damage off of it.
However, someone who abuses a counter and seldom uses their other tools is throw or smash attack bait.
So no. It's just a matter of learning.
However, someone who abuses a counter and seldom uses their other tools is throw or smash attack bait.
So no. It's just a matter of learning.
Dirty Duck
Smash Apprentice
I've punished and been punished when it comes to counters many times while playing Sm4sh, you need to know when to expect a counter and need to make sure you aren't giving them the opportunity, and if you are giving them the opportunity you need to remain cautious and prepare for a grab.
Something I did today in a For Glory that punished a counter was use Marth's Up Special on a Lucario, it registered me attacking his counter but when it triggered I was up in the air, so the Lucario went flying off the edge of the stage. Great to watch.
Something I did today in a For Glory that punished a counter was use Marth's Up Special on a Lucario, it registered me attacking his counter but when it triggered I was up in the air, so the Lucario went flying off the edge of the stage. Great to watch.
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Riggy Rascal
Smash Cadet
Nah, an opponent's access to a counter only encourages you to be on your toes and be less predictable. Increasing your number of grabs as well as a few quick pauses here and there should make things rather even.
That, and some counters aren't all that great. Marth and Ike are pretty scary with their counters, yeah, but Shulk and Lucario's could soar right past the target if tried from above.
That, and some counters aren't all that great. Marth and Ike are pretty scary with their counters, yeah, but Shulk and Lucario's could soar right past the target if tried from above.
SwoodGrommet
Smash Journeyman
I got KO'd by a Shulk's counter today.
I was mad.
But nah, I don't think they're Op despite my previous Shulk encounter. They're annoying to fight, not Op. Easily baited, and easily punished with charged smashes or grabs (my preference). However, some counters active animations last a year
I was mad.
But nah, I don't think they're Op despite my previous Shulk encounter. They're annoying to fight, not Op. Easily baited, and easily punished with charged smashes or grabs (my preference). However, some counters active animations last a year
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Dirty Duck
Smash Apprentice
The thing that irks me most about that is how the animation doesn't reflect the fact they're falling, physics just suddenly gives them an invisible falling platform to stand up and counter on
GamesShark
Smash Rookie
I've felt this way too. I think it's just a matter of knowing if your opponent is going to use it or not. But yes, it's infuriating, especially when they spam it XD
Jerm
U Feelin' It?
I countered a warlock punch with Shulks counter and killed him at 0% xD-check for yourself lol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTgVNESsAWU#t=52
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTgVNESsAWU#t=52
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Nammy12
Smash Lord
It's a matter of predicting your opponent. Most of the time I use Shulk's counter as a kill move since I never use it during the round so they end up forget about it. If an opponent is spamming a counter, then throws are your friend.
Ryuji
Smash Apprentice
Never use Warlock Punch against a character with Counter(Vision for Shulk). You're basically allowing yourself to get a massive spike in damage and you will most likely get KO'd. If an opponent is constantly spamming Counter, the correct response is to grab to punish them, or simply attack after the move since it's quite easy to capitalize on if it fails. This is the drawback that makes the move not OP. Don't mistake the multiplied damage from the move as being OP.
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Jerm
that's exactly what I did today too. Used Vision on Ganondorf who foolishly used Warlock Punch and got an easy 42% damage. Needless to say he was sent soaring at the speed of light never to return.
@
Jerm
that's exactly what I did today too. Used Vision on Ganondorf who foolishly used Warlock Punch and got an easy 42% damage. Needless to say he was sent soaring at the speed of light never to return.
Madolche ♦ Procione
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2013
- Messages
- 151
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Super Writer
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2014
- Messages
- 162
I do find it problematic in For Fun mode when one player does nothing but counter and the other players constantly fall for it, thus giving the person spamming it kills.
Raijinken
Smash Master
Welcome to Super Counter Bros, where the only significant difference between this game and the past is the sheer number of characters with counter moves.
Warlock Punch and Explosive Kick were never useful moves to begin with, except for in scenarios in which the enemy can't counter anyway (freefall, mostly).
As a long-time main of characters with counter moves, I would say they are approximately as useless against a cautious opponent as they always have been.
Warlock Punch and Explosive Kick were never useful moves to begin with, except for in scenarios in which the enemy can't counter anyway (freefall, mostly).
As a long-time main of characters with counter moves, I would say they are approximately as useless against a cautious opponent as they always have been.
When the counter is a success, then kind of yeah but when it fails, nope.
In all seriousness though, it isn't. You're just going to have to be more aware on the right time to strike or to grab more often... depending in which character though. lol
In all seriousness though, it isn't. You're just going to have to be more aware on the right time to strike or to grab more often... depending in which character though. lol
Minuy600
Smash Apprentice
It's stupid to see that so many people think Counter is OP, while it isn't, unless it hits.
LarsINTJ
Banned via Warnings
What's the difference between OP and too OP?
Sleeplost
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2014
- Messages
- 139
- NNID
- Sleeplost
They're not overpowered but they're definitely good attacks that most players take for granite.
Most players I meet on FG counter at the worst times and I'm easily able to punish with down grab into nair.
Of course if you can properly read attacks and counter correctly, yeah. It's a force to be reckoned with.
Most players I meet on FG counter at the worst times and I'm easily able to punish with down grab into nair.
Of course if you can properly read attacks and counter correctly, yeah. It's a force to be reckoned with.
I_hate_usernames
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2013
- Messages
- 610
It being overpowered in general and it feeling more powerful than it should, probably.
The fact that counter nullifies everything (including projectiles and flame) makes it a bit ridiculous.
HammerHappy
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2014
- Messages
- 178
Nah. Too often it's a crutch (spam counter!) that trumps another crutch (spam smash!).
Start up a grab game or projectile camp if you feel your opponent is counter happy. It's also easy to bait out if you rush down then pause. It can be a free fully charged smash if you time it right.
Start up a grab game or projectile camp if you feel your opponent is counter happy. It's also easy to bait out if you rush down then pause. It can be a free fully charged smash if you time it right.
LarsINTJ
Banned via Warnings
It was a rhetorical question.
Exactly. After reading people's posts here, I can understand that it's a matter of practice of predicting, but attacks like the Warlock Punch... they have like over 1 whole second to react and use a counter, and if they counter it, you are pretty much screwed. So, these more powerful and slow attacks are pretty useless against counter characters in my opinion :\
Annoying, but not op. Counters aren't spot on. You have to do them somewhat before the attack lands, which is difficult to do accurately. Some people just toss out the move just in case, but those guys just leave themselves open to real punishes. Just avoid using extremely powerful moves against someone with counters. Multi-hit attacks are great, especially since the first hits are usually weaker than the last one.
Jerm
U Feelin' It?
Thanks bro :DLovin' that video, man.
Looks like you've got a good rhythm going.
o yea for sure, but if the player with the counter somehow mispredicts and counters too early they will be severely punished by said powerful attacks. It's risk vs reward for both parties.
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zozo
Smash Apprentice
Yes. Counter is pretty dumb when it even counters projectiles. I baited a counter out of my opponent once with ZSS and thought I could hit him with a laser then go for a Dthrow combo kill, thinking that projectiles can't be countered because I'm not actually touching them with my body, but he countered my projectile and I lost the match. LOL
strawhatninja
Smash Ace
Counter do seem stronger but if you learn how the person who spams counter plays you can easily use it against him.