Approaching Enemies

[Lord P Wallington]

Hey guys, I'm kind of new to smashboards (made an account for 3ds) so bear with me if this is a noob question.

I've been playing a lot of Sheik and I like to try and use my dash attack to initiate a fight. A lot of the time, however, they shield and grab me.

What im wondering is: What is a better way of approaching the enemy that leaves me less vulnerable to a counterattack?
I'm not sure if this belongs here on in general so sorry if it's in the wrong place.

 

[Zankoku]

Don't commit to attacks with high recovery unless you're using them as a punish. Dash attack is very quick and the burst of speed lets it reach fairly far, but the recovery makes it an extremely risky option to make from neutral. Using things like max range tilts and aerials, instead, would be much safer. If you need to take a risk to try to open them up, a grab would likely bring better success than a dash attack.

 

[CH4LK]

It's not so much of having a better way as it is having different ways of approaching. Shiek can foxtrot to any tilt, you can dash to upsmash, you could do a staggered dash approach to throw off timing, you can short hop fair or nair, you can run behind and pivot grab. It's mostly about having a different mix of attacks or dodges that you use in your approach. You need to be able to read your opponent more than he can read you, you know what I mean? Most of the time if you're getting shield grabbed, it's because you're being predictable.

 

[Lord P Wallington]

Don't commit to attacks with high recovery unless you're using them as a punish. Dash attack is very quick and the burst of speed lets it reach fairly far, but the recovery makes it an extremely risky option to make from neutral. Using things like max range tilts and aerials, instead, would be much safer. If you need to take a risk to try to open them up, a grab would likely bring better success than a dash attack.

So a dash attack should be used as more of a follow-up than an approach?

 

[Lord P Wallington]

It's not so much of having a better way as it is having different ways of approaching. Shiek can foxtrot to any tilt, you can dash to upsmash, you could do a staggered dash approach to throw off timing, you can short hop fair or nair, you can run behind and pivot grab. It's mostly about having a different mix of attacks or dodges that you use in your approach. You need to be able to read your opponent more than he can read you, you know what I mean? Most of the time if you're getting shield grabbed, it's because you're being predictable.

I get what you're saying. Thanks for the input!

 

[[NameGoesHere]]

Don't commit to attacks with high recovery unless you're using them as a punish. Dash attack is very quick and the burst of speed lets it reach fairly far, but the recovery makes it an extremely risky option to make from neutral. Using things like max range tilts and aerials, instead, would be much safer. If you need to take a risk to try to open them up, a grab would likely bring better success than a dash attack.

Well what if they side step and punish? I was playing a pretty good lucina and when ever i would try to start a combo by Dthrow U-air or needles into a short hop f-air even punish and grab he would just side step punish grab. I found that trying to hit with an F-Air or N-Air work from time to time but was not really reliable.

 

[Wasserwipf]

Well what if they side step and punish? I was playing a pretty good lucina and when ever i would try to start a combo by Dthrow U-air or needles into a short hop f-air even punish and grab he would just side step punish grab. I found that trying to hit with an F-Air or N-Air work from time to time but was not really reliable.

If they sidestep all the time, then they're predictable. Run in, wait for the sidestep and grab afterwards. If they do it ocasionally, you may want to use a longer lasting attack, D-Smash for example should work wonders. Also, if they just wait for you to approach.. you got the projectiles. Needles do a great job, and even the burst nade can force them to approach. And thats usually what you want. Also, shorthop nair lasts long, or Dair to outspace their grab. There are countless options.

 

[Lord P Wallington]

If they sidestep all the time, then they're predictable. Run in, wait for the sidestep and grab afterwards. If they do it ocasionally, you may want to use a longer lasting attack, D-Smash for example should work wonders. Also, if they just wait for you to approach.. you got the projectiles. Needles do a great job, and even the burst nade can force them to approach. And thats usually what you want. Also, shorthop nair lasts long, or Dair to outspace their grab. There are countless options.

I have a lot of trouble hitting nades and using it properly, but needles would work.

 

[vmoney48]

What I like to do is to bait the opponent into throwing the needles right away and stack the needles. Wait for the right time when they sidestep or dodge and then let them loose.

 

[trilok]

In brawl and smash4, its not very good to approach. In melee also for sheik, she didnt like approaching.
Wait for your opponent to approach and punish is a much better strategy in this game and in brawl, and melee sheik.
you have needles, throw them and they will come to you.
if you have to approach. always try to mixup. dash attack is fine once in a while, but it will get you sheild grabbed. you can do many things, all of them will not be safe, but the trick is to mixup such as:
dash attack
cross up dash attack
run up grab/boost grab
short hop fair to tilt
run up sheild
run up stand in place
run up forward tilt
tomahawk.
against roll happy players, pivot smash/tilt/grab or wait and then punish with anything.

A lot of it is character dependant, and you should always try to be safe, but the safest thing is usually mixing it up or reading your opponents habits. when doing moves, try crossing up, or space it so that you barely hit them or their shield with your attack

for extra style, vanish can be used as a hard read

 

[Lord P Wallington]

In brawl and smash4, its not very good to approach. In melee also for sheik, she didnt like approaching.
Wait for your opponent to approach and punish is a much better strategy in this game and in brawl, and melee sheik.
you have needles, throw them and they will come to you.
if you have to approach. always try to mixup. dash attack is fine once in a while, but it will get you sheild grabbed. you can do many things, all of them will not be safe, but the trick is to mixup such as:
dash attack
cross up dash attack
run up grab/boost grab
short hop fair to tilt
run up sheild
run up stand in place
run up forward tilt
tomahawk.
against roll happy players, pivot smash/tilt/grab or wait and then punish with anything.

A lot of it is character dependant, and you should always try to be safe, but the safest thing is usually mixing it up or reading your opponents habits. when doing moves, try crossing up, or space it so that you barely hit them or their shield with your attack

for extra style, vanish can be used as a hard read

If i ran up and stood in place wouldnt they just grab or counterattack me?

 

[DtJ Jungle]

It's a good way to see how they react

alot of people like to hit buttons when they see people run up at them so you can punish them if they get scared or try to do laggy move or something

 

[Lord P Wallington]

It's a good way to see how they react

alot of people like to hit buttons when they see people run up at them so you can punish them if they get scared or try to do laggy move or something

I see. Thanks.

 

[KenMeister]

Sheik doesn't approach, and in a lot of top tiered matchups, it's not a good idea. Best to bait with needles (and to an extent, burst grenade) and force an approach.

 

[Lord P Wallington]

Sheik doesn't approach, and in a lot of top tiered matchups, it's not a good idea. Best to bait with needles (and to an extent, burst grenade) and force an approach.

What if they outspam me so I sit there waiting the entire game?

 

[KenMeister]

What if they outspam me so I sit there waiting the entire game?

You have SH fairs/nairs, as well as ftilt to rid of the projectiles, though admittingly this is matchup specific. I find it best to beat the projectile spam by SHFF'ing them until I get within mid range between me and the character. Launch needles from and hopefully you should get an opening from there since they won't have a whole of of room to breathe from there when loading up another projectile. But again, this is matchup specific, what characters are you looking at, exactly?

 

[Elemt]

I find bower Jr hard to approach. He had the doll thing and the bomb and the car he rides away when you get close. But when he uses the car I can needle him then fair or Nair

 

[KenMeister]

I find bower Jr hard to approach. He had the doll thing and the bomb and the car he rides away when you get close. But when he uses the car I can needle him then fair or Nair

I find that Bouncing Fish works wonders whenever he's loading up projectiles. He can't spam THAT easily.

 

[?.?]

The doll is easy as hell to pick up even if they try and trap you, just shield the initial hit then sh airdodge. For the cannon BF goes right over it even at ground level and you should never be afraid of it. In this matchup always have needles loaded and be prepared to shorthop nair his car

 

[Jackson]

I should reinforce what some others have said: often, you don't HAVE to approach. Sheik has the luxury of having a decent camp game with needles. The only time you should go in are when you're down a stock or your opponent can out-camp you (like Duck Hunt).

Hope that helped!

 

[LinkNIvy]

Needles errydai. They're very fast and can bleed out percent very well with a campy, reaction based playstyle.

Dash is more so something to use when you know they're going to be lagging from something

 

[KenMeister]

What about Kirby? I played a reeeally defensive Japanese Kirby who pretty much knew how to avoid my forced approach options (ducking or good airdodge/ float game), and I found that her grab punishment doesn't work on him as well as other characters. Any tips or that, or is just a boring "trade hits: the matchup" battle?

 

[Lord P Wallington]

What about Kirby? I played a reeeally defensive Japanese Kirby who pretty much knew how to avoid my forced approach options (ducking or good airdodge/ float game), and I found that her grab punishment doesn't work on him as well as other characters. Any tips or that, or is just a boring "trade hits: the matchup" battle?

Sounds like a trade kinda battle to me

 

[Wyverian]

Sheik doesn't approach, and in a lot of top tiered matchups, it's not a good idea. Best to bait with needles (and to an extent, burst grenade) and force an approach.

I agree, baiting with needles is VERY important, also, Short hop+Aerial Attack, either Forward air, or Neutral Air after dashing.