Approach. Or do not approach.

[Kayo]

It was recently brought to my attention that I rush in too much, or all the time. Especially lately. This leads to me getting wreaked by characters with strong punish games. This is made more apparent to me in match up I don't have a lot of experience in. We all know Ness has an awful neutral so I was have you guys work around it. I know there's PK Fire mixups and what not but I need some new ideas.

 

[FreeGamer]

You can try dash dancing, wavedashing backward to try and fake out the other person, short hop Magnet into retreating or advancing DJC aerials, and occasionally Dash Attack can be useful if you space it to connect with the second or third hits first. I find that the Magnet helps a lot.

 

[Bryonato]

Maybe try establishing a bait and punish game. With magnet Ness can do a lot of different bait mixups and punish accordingly. NZA was talking about the simple retreating magnet thing and from my experience that's been working out well. WB magnet allows for a lot of great setups.
The best way to "not approach all the time" IMO is do get the most out of every exchange. Capitalize on your opponent's mistakes and get every % you can.
There's certainly nothing wrong with pkfire abuse as well.

Play to win.

 

[The_NZA]

40% of Ness is understanding how to approach, 40% of Ness is knowing how to convert a maximum amount of damage off of every hit 20% is learning how to not kill yourself pkt2ing.

 

[Kayo]

40% of Ness is understanding how to approach, 40% of Ness is knowing how to convert a maximum amount of damage off of every hit 20% is learning how to not kill yourself pkt2ing.

Advice to live by. Take note new Ness mains.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Ness has a really good DD and a pretty good WD as well. He makes great use of platforms due to these and his DJC, so hang around them if you can. Platform cancelled PK Fire can also be a great tool in certain match ups.

Mobility is key with Ness, as the best way to make your opponent do something stupid is to make them think they're out of your stubby little range. Then close the distance and punish.

 

[The_NZA]

I feel like the DJC actually hurts his platform game more than helps.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

I feel like the DJC actually hurts his platform game more than helps.

How so?

 

[The_NZA]

His jumps being slow and the range of his attacks being small means he has a harder time straight up punishing techs on platforms. Comparatively, he has a much easier time hitting people in open space. With that said, I think magnet helps a lot in punishing people on platforms.

 

[Bryonato]

Something I've been working with (but not implementing well) is just sitting in magnet below the platform I'm waiting for my opponent to tech on so i can immediately follow up. At the moment i don't think it's very good but someone else might have success with it

 

[The_NZA]

Something I've been working with (but not implementing well) is just sitting in magnet below the platform I'm waiting for my opponent to tech on so i can immediately follow up. At the moment i don't think it's very good but someone else might have success with it

I actually do that a lot Bryon, to quite a bit of success. Can't remember how much I did it in my Apex vids but it essentially cuts Ness's distance from the platform above him, meaning his slow jump isn't as big a deal.

 

[Bryonato]

What do you usually do? Rising nair?

 

[The_NZA]

I normally go for the uair, fair or bair, but really any aerial will work. Sometimes, i'll do a nair because its a longer hitbox, and if done while moving, it'll cover a lot more space than Ness's other aerials.

 

[thesage]

Wavelanding onto platforms significantly helps your combo game on them.

 

[Bryonato]

Yeah I've just been using rising uair and missing on account of the second jump swing. I'll work on it

 

[choknater]

what i learned from Hax is that you have to first learn how to win a matchup by never approaching and just protecting yourself/punishing

if you notice the way he plays falcon in melee, he just focuses on spacing nairs safely. ness can play this way easily with just fair and dash dance grabs. ness can also retreat easily with rising aerials. learning how to play perfect defense in all matchups should be essential before learning how to approach

at least, this is how i play now haha

 

[PJHMastermind]

I think you hit the nail right on the head with what I have been thinking about lately but couldn't truly grasp. I have pretty good punish, combo, reads, PSI shenanigans and general tech ability's, but I have hit a wall against a few really good players recently that I just don't get how/why. Specifically an INSANE Lucas main. But I think the main issue is that I have started to get into the bad habit of ALWAYS approaching, and all they do is retreating moves of every type, and combo on from there. And my only thought process is to go and get in even faster before they can react. But that seems to be a terrible way of going about finding an opening. I have always favored Ness over all other characters in all SSB games, so I really need to get something going, to where I am not being so utterly destroyed by people. I just can't imagine a gap so HUGE in between us. Thanks for advice in advance!

 

[Slatanata]

djc fair for the win and idk maybe im crazy but i use pk thunder to approach a lot of the times but make sure you can mix it up because you never want you opponent to punish it

 

[choknater]

yo dem bumps!

seriously these days i can win entire matches with the simple neutral game of full hopping in place and fading away slightly, and it baits people into getting hit by a djc with forward momentum into fair. grab and GG

a lot of the time this is even better than dash dancing lol

 

[thesage]

I remember just standing still as Peach in melee and then wd'ing backwards when a fox would approach me and just d-smash. So trolly. You can do it with pk fire in project m.

 

[jayeldeee]

What about using the range of the fair and the dash? What are some ways you can approach that?

What I've been trying to do at least is understand where the hitboxes of each characters moves are and what really takes priority. But overall, how well does this work for some of you?

 

[choknater]

yeah fair and dash attack have great hitboxes. i learned what 'priority' really means in this game, so don't get the things confused

hitbox - active area of damage
hurtbox - where characters get hurt
priority - stronger attack wins (i think this applies to only ground attacks.. can someone correct me?)

similar-strength attacks have similar priority, so on the ground, they clank, and in the air they trade. but if a move outdamages another by 8%, it will attack cleanly through the other attack i.e. ganon's wizard's foot beating everything.

so it's not that ness' fair "outprioritizes" other moves. it's just that its hitbox is big and disjointed and hits the other hurtbox first. hopefully this use of the language spreads more, since it's more accurate!

 

[fAtomsk]

I would also like the terminology to change, but I understand why it is the way it is.
In every other fighting game priority means what people want it to mean or think it means in Smash Bros. *shrugs*