Anti-Edgeguard Tier List

[Stormcrow2]

I'm not sure if anyone has made a list like this before, but I found myself pondering the characters that I've had the most trouble edgeguarding. So here's my list (not by length of recovery, but by ability to not be edgeguarded):

1. Pikachu
2. Mario
3. Luigi
4. DK
5. Samus
6. Yoshi
7. Kirby
8. Jiggs
9. Link
10. Fox
11. C. Falcon
12. Ness (obviously)

I would say numbers 1 through 3 are pretty interchangeable. I also find myself having some trouble against really good DKs too, that's why I have him at number 4. But DK and Samus I would say are all really close too. And from 9 down, are all pretty much poop-tier. I have link above falcon and fox because of boomerang and the drop-upB or f-air that link can do which can sometimes be effective. Fox's up-B is just too slow. Falcon I've found to be pretty easy to edgeguard. As for Ness, I don't think I need to explain my reasoning.

<Server Trash> omg.. ness is so cheap
I still get this ^ from time to time. lawls

 

[Froski]

1) Kirby should be place below Pikachu (IMO)

2) Yoshi should be placed further down (Haven't decided where exactly. Probably in Kirby's current spot).


My crappy list will be added soon.

 

[asianaussie]

no tier list can accurately take into account the edgeguarder factors, since some characters' recoveries improve exponentially if the opponent isn't standing perfectly ready at the ledge, whereas some characters (coughness) just dont matter, even if the opponent has to run a marathon to get to the edge

whoops mine became a recovery tier list

one billion options tier
pika

cant reach me tier
kirby recovering high
samus recovering high (maybe)
jiggs recovering high

big hitboxes tier
mario
dk
samus
link if he has some options
low percent yoshi

still have options tier
fox recovering high
everyone else who i haven't mentioned recovering high
falcon (random teleport jutsu)
fox that can just make it to solid ground

tier tier
everyone not mentioned recovering at ground level

trash tier
kirby from below
high percent yoshi
jiggs from below
ness

this is smash 64 tier
anybody who can just barely make it to the edge

didn't think very hard about this

 

[Stormcrow2]

1) Kirby should be place below Pikachu (IMO)

2) Yoshi should be placed further down (Haven't decided where exactly. Probably in Kirby's current spot).


My crappy list will be added soon.

Yeah, I guess it's hard to place everyone because kirby and jiggs can recover so high. I agree because if kirby is recovering high up, he's obviously hard to edgeguard.

 

[Surri-Sama]

1. Pikachu
2. Mario
3. Luigi
4. Kirby
5. Samus
6. Jiggs
7. DK
8. Yoshi
9. Fox
10. C. Falcon
11. Link
12. Ness (closer to link, falcon, yoshi, and fox then you might think)

 

[The Real Sykes]

1. Pikachu
2. Mario
3. Luigi
4. Kirby
5. Samus
6. Jiggs
7. DK
8. Yoshi
9. Fox
10. Link
11. Captain Douglas (Potentially worse if hit box for doug hug is not timed)
12. Ness

 

[King Omega]

I was going to say something indignant about how low Falcon is on these lists, but then I remembered they're "anti-edgeguard" and not recovery... So yeah, seems legit.

I'm going to put Ness above Link. Yes, I know, Ness, but there's literally no reason Link should ever recover, from anywhere, while Ness occasionally gets a lucky position. Or maybe they're about equal. Or something.

 

[ballin4life]

I feel like Link is pretty good at recovering as long as he is within the distance that he can cover with his relatively short recovery. Can use boomerang to help recover and upB has good priority.

 

[RickySSB]

Kirby is the best at anti-edgeguarding, cuz he has more jumps that other Char. More hit posibilities and edgeguard.

 

[King Omega]

I feel like Link is pretty good at recovering as long as he is within the distance that he can cover with his relatively short recovery. Can use boomerang to help recover and upB has good priority.

Yeah, upB has priority and comes out fast, so you can surprise the edgeguarder with unusual timing. But he's basically an edgehog away from being back in the exact same situation he recovered from. If you edgehog Link, forcing him to recover onstage, you can take your sweet time getting back on stage, and still have time to spare for grab, bthrow, repeat.

Forcing onstage recovery is something more people need to do (as a mixup anyway). People don't even do it in teams 2v1 edgeguarding, I mean, what the hell?

Kirby is the best at anti-edgeguarding, cuz he has more jumps that other Char. More hit posibilities and edgeguard.

Better than Pikachu?

 

[ballin4life]

the edgehog -> bthrow doesn't work as well when you're above 100% though, right?

 

[Olikus]

link has allmost as horrible recovery as ness, but when you talk about edguarding, and link is close to the edge he isnt the worst. because like ballin stated, boomerang and upb priority. On this list he is probably above ness, fox and falcon. Fox might actually be below falcon, because of the captains sometimes lolwutmagnet.

 

[Sangoku]

I've always found Link to be one of the most difficult character to edgeguard. I mean when he's in the range to recover. Dat Upb.

 

[The Star King]

I'm going to put Ness above Link. Yes, I know, Ness, but there's literally no reason Link should ever recover, from anywhere, while Ness occasionally gets a lucky position.

Actually, there's literally no reason Ness should ever recover, from anywhere, while Link occasionally gets a lucky position.

Sometimes you don't have time to edgehog Link and force him onstage, and in those situations his recovery is decent.

 

[Battlecow]

that's not true at all

if ness is offstage but close enough to reach it with a jump and you're not near the edge he can recover EZ

wut

 

[clubbadubba]

that's not true at all

if ness is offstage but close enough to reach it with a jump and you're not near the edge he can recover EZ

wut

yea like say you falcon punch him at like 0% from the left side to the right side of DL, you can't even edgeguard that recovery. sssssssss tier

 

[Battlecow]

he's wtf good

 

[King Omega]

You could argue that. But as far as Link being in that optimal spot for his upB goes, even then it's not impossible to hit him out of it. Dtilt or whatever.

Also, Fox should be below Falcon. Yeah. Less about teleport gimmicks and more about how if you get a weak hit at low percent as Fox, you're dead because of startup, but Falcon can take a hit mid-recovery and possibly still spring up and doughog/grab the ledge.

 

[The Star King]

^Obviously it's not impossible to hit Link, but his recovery is decent

Fox's recovery is better when he's high because of "lol where am I gonna fall"

that's not true at all

if ness is offstage but close enough to reach it with a jump and you're not near the edge he can recover EZ

wut

I knew someone would disagree but I was just mirroring his words for effect. GAWD

 

[King Omega]

Does Fox's "high" superiority outweigh Falcon's "low" superiority? It's true that people often fail what seem like easy edgeguards on a falling Fox, but there are things you can do to cover as many of the Fox's options as possible. Sex kicks outward come to mind, and if you connect with even a weak hit you'll have time to prepare for and intercept the second, lower attempt.

Oh, I guess that assumes they're only just reaching/passing the ledge. Yeah, if they're really high they do practically have the whole stage to land on.

 

[The Star King]

To your first question, yeah I would say so.

 

[KnitePhox]

Sex kicks outward come to mind

i was under the assumption that sex kicks are aerials with long(terms of time) hitboxes

 

[Sangoku]

Yes that's the case, long hitbox (strong then weak "erects quickly and goes weaker with time"). But since Nairs often fall into this category, by extension sex kick may also refer to Nair. At least that's how I understood it.

Also, I think Fox can even avoid a sex kick by going away from the stage before going to the ledge. Except if the attacker attacks farther, but then Fox could see it coming and go fully into the stage. I don't know, but the "lol where am I going to fall" works really often.

 

[Battlecow]

specifically the 11 nairs that start strong and end weak (mirroring, in their hitboxy glory, the ageless and archetypal life cycle of the human phallus during procreation).

edit: ninja'd a lil bit

 

[The Star King]

That's not what I meant by "lol where am I going to fall", I mean when Fox goes diagonally up towards the stage (and he is decently high) and then he can influence his horizontal movement, and go back towards the ledge or forwards to the center of the stage. Can't really "cover options with a sex kick"

 

[asianaussie]

"lol where am I gonna fall"

i still love this quote so much

basically agreeing with star king a bunch, i probably posted a wack order on my list but cbf editing

 

[clubbadubba]

lol where am i gonna fall >>>>> lol let me magnet hump you

 

[The Star King]

^best

also aa see, someone got my referring to a random post for once

 

[B Link]

Backthrowing link right at one of the edges of dreamland feels great. No boomerang complications or tricky upbs -- you just grab the edge!

 

[Sangoku]

^best

also aa see, someone got my referring to a random post for once

Huh I thought everybody knew that post you were referring to. Was it Peek's?

 

[asianaussie]

yes it was peek's

star king = me = med student = sangoku

so it's entirely possible that only peek, me, you, star king and probably like ballincow and some randoms remember this post

i only remember it because it made me laugh

 

[ballin4life]

i remember. also i loled again.

 

[King Omega]

Can't really "cover options with a sex kick"

You do know what covering options means, right? Placing an aerial in the right spot will reduce their recovery options, and you'll either hit them or have a better chance of guessing which of the remaining options they'll take.

I'm not saying this is some surefire method or that it even puts Fox any lower on these lists, but you're being awfully dismissive of something that's basically just "stick a hitbox in their face so they can't occupy that space anymore."

 

[asianaussie]

if that's your definition, you can cover options with any move that has a hitbox...

even if you reduce his options to the point where you no longer have to guess, it won't matter because fox will either be hanging on the ledge or have landed in-stage safely - he falls fast and has very low landing lag

unless the sexkick covers both extremes (land in-stage, fade-out and come in to grab the ledge - no sexkick covers both particularly well), it doesn't matter, it'll still be a 50/50 guess at best

 

[Sangoku]

But that's precisely why Fox's "where am I going to fall" is so effective. If you cover one option with an attack, Fox can freely choose the other way and he'll be too far to be attacked.

Ninja'd

 

[King Funk]

I don't think a general list is that easy to make, it depends entirely on the character edgeguarding.

For example, I find Pikachu much easier to edgeguard than Mario as Falcon but I find Mario way easier to edgeguard than Pikachu as Fox.

Also, Falcon's recovery is very underrated.

 

[King Omega]

Also, Falcon's recovery is very underrated.

I always want to say that, but then I feel like I should add "but yeah, he is really easy to gimp" and then I'm just arguing against myself and...

He has a lot of options except when low, and when he is low most people (I dunno, boom is the only consistent exception I can think of from my experience) hit him with something easy to ledge DI. When he's right in the that far-low range and can't hug the wall or get above the ledge, then sure, he's toast, but people still often screw that up and get doughugged.

Also, when he's high, "lol where am i gonna fall."

 

[The Star King]

I don't think a general list is that easy to make, it depends entirely on the character edgeguarding.

For example, I find Pikachu much easier to edgeguard than Mario as Falcon but I find Mario way easier to edgeguard than Pikachu as Fox.

Also, Falcon's recovery is very underrated.

Obviously match-ups affect this... just like the normal tier list. This is an "average" of sorts... just like the normal tier list. So there you go.

@King Omega "lol where am I gonna fall" isn't very good with Falcon because his aerial mobility during special fall is not very good, definitely worse than Fox's. Try doing an up-b with Falcon and going backwards afterwards, then try doing an up-b with Fox and going backwards afterwards, and see the difference.

 

[King Funk]

@King Omega "lol where am I gonna fall" isn't very good with Falcon because his aerial mobility during special fall is not very good, definitely worse than Fox's. Try doing an up-b with Falcon and going backwards afterwards, then try doing an up-b with Fox and going backwards afterwards, and see the difference.

In what kind of scenario? Recovering very high up? Or from below the edge?

For the former, Fox's recovery is definitely better. More Fox players should recover as high as possible and then use his air mobility during special fall as much as possible. In many matchups it's one of his best options possible to have a shot at surviving (even if it's still extremely small, but oh well).

In the latter case, Falcon's recovery is usually always better because of his faster startup on recovery and his ability to mix up between a spaced or direct recovery.

 

[The Star King]

I was talking about high up, and yeah I agree that Falcon's is a bit better from below.

The "using Fox's aerial mobility during special fall" is what we were talking about the whole time with "lol where am I gonna fall", as dubbed by Peek.