Anonymity on the Internet

[Maven89]

Are you familiar with the story of the Ring of Gyges? In it, Plato used the idea of a ring that turns you invisible to ask a question: would an intelligent man still be moral if he knew he'd face no consequences for his actions? What if an intelligent person had such a ring? The assumption is "No, even the most moral man would realize his own self interests would be to commit crimes, as he'd never have any consequences to it".

Then we have the internet. What at first was just a place for computer experts and the rich has turned into a daily necessity that our society runs through. Yet with this has come the culture of anonymous. And as we're anonymous, no one can figure out who we are. I can say anything, good, bad, true or false, and never have it tied back to me. Anything at all. In a few circumstances, like political oppression, this can be a good thing. But for day to day life, I believe it's bad. It's poisoned our communication. In the 80s, someone who claims people who disagree with his movie opinions are "worthless pieces of **** who destroy our culture" would rightly be ignored and avoided. Today, not only can you not tell who it is that is saying it, but it's the general manner of speech on the internet. There is no need for social necessities. Respect and patience, two traits that allow us as a species to live together, are avoided entirely on the internet. Did someone write a very large post detailing their issues? TLDR

Now, part of this is personal experience. When I was younger I was a huge internet troll, who ran around any site I could purposefully getting a rise out of people. I thought it was funny, fun, and "didn't matter cause it's not me saying it". Never mind that it was, but I never felt the personal connection between my day to day life and my interactions on the internet. I'd listen to someone in person talk about how they like Spiderman 3, go "Personally I was disappointed in the movie, but I'm glad you liked it", then get on the internet and call people who like Spiderman 3 "mouth breating *******". Did I really hate people who liked that movie? No, but I thought it was funny, and I had zero reason to act otherwise. I'd never act like that in public, where people would judge me. But make me invisible, remove all social consequences?

So should the internet rightly judge anonymity to be a high standard? I think no. Maybe once, long ago, when the internet was barely relevant. But with our current online society, and the continuation of social iterations taking place online, I think it's time to recognize that we need social feedback and consequences to maintain not only our culture but also our society. We're already seeing the rise of the "internet" talk. Just look at Donald Trump

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

The internet allows people to act faceless all the time and be complete jerks in situations they wouldn't be able to get away with it.

Your example of the Ring of Gyges fits a lot of what I have seen on a lot of smash areas.

People will outright be awful to other people to the point they tell people to drink bleach, hang themselves and other awful things. Twitch is another example of this to the worst degree.

Anonymity is a problem with the internet when people can get away with it without any repercussions. It's why I hate Reddit, youtube comments and Twitch chats as much as I do. People are able to be as awful as they want without any consequences.

There is a time and place for Anonymity, like someone asking advice but do not want to tell their real account name. That makes sense. The more it filters out the worse it can get.

 

[SSG SAX GAMER]

I think it's pretty obvious that the Internet isn't the problem, it's human nature. The Internet itself is a good thing that allows people to have access to a huge amount of information. It also can teach us a lot about how to do things, and the most important of all is probably the spread of new ideas. It makes it so that the news and television can't suppress or completely control the ideas that spread because now we can just talk about t on YouTube.

The problem is how people choose to use the Internet. I don't think that making it so that we have consequences for saying things on the Internet is right because then that's a form of censorship. Making it so we have social consequences by say making it so that other people can see what you've been doing is also bad in case we a have a legitimate reason to be anonymous, like if we're going through personal issues.

Overall I think that the the anonymity of the Internet is the problem and there isn't a good way to fix it. I think we should just learn to deal with and ignore these internet trolls.

 

[KirbCider]

The Internet is indeed a very tricky issue when it comes to anonymity and what goes on on it.

Yes, a lot of people who use the Internet will more often than not use it to act out in a manner they will never do in person. There will always be people who abuse the fact that they'll never be truly punished for their actions because they are safely hidden away behind a screen. The worst that could ever possibly happen is if they get banned from the site, blocked by users, or whatever other punishment a site may wish to carry out. Either way a punishment such as banning won't quite change their behavior, and I doubt they'd care.

One of the major issues with the Internet is people actually encourage that sort of behavior in the first place.

People find Trolling to be hilarious and you see people bragging about it or showing it off all the time. You'll see a lot of Text screen caps of people messing with others simply because they got the wrong number, or may of been stupid enough to post it somewhere publicly. You'll see videos of people trolling others in Online Games just for the giggles and views. It doesn't necessarily have to be games either.

Who cares if it's unnecessary? Who cares if it's wrong? It's funny and gets views!

So it's not just anonymity that's the problem, it's the Internet in general and the people who use it. The Internet is so easily accessible now and anyone and their dog can use it. Young kids aren't really being watched by their parents and (this may not speak for everyone's kids) are definitely getting more spoiled by getting IPhones, IPads, and many other devices with Internet Access.

I'm not saying it's just kids who act this way Online; however keep in mind how influenced they are by what's "Cool/Funny/Awseome".

Sadly it's very difficult to censor the Internet or stop this sort of behavior. Many people can not only hide behind just screen-names and a variety of E-Mails, but can also change their IPs and more to make them even more untraceable. There's so many ways you can hide Online, and that makes it much easier for others to act the way and do the things they end up doing Online.

Overall I think that the the anonymity of the Internet is the problem and there isn't a good way to fix it. I think we should just learn to deal with and ignore these internet trolls.

Random Internet Trolls aren't the only problem though. Online Bullying has also gotten severely popular.

Not only can others torment somebody in person, but they can now do it in the convenience of their own homes behind a screen. Also don't forget the "Great MySpace Scares" when News Stories of kids getting lured out into various situations were pretty rampant. And sometimes it's not so simple as "learning to deal with them." A long, long while back (I'm talking like, 8 years or so) I had a friend who had his DeviantArt account hacked, and the hacker posted up very graphic images onto his account. It didn't exactly stop there either.

Turns out the hacker also managed to get his Phone Number and called him frequently. People can get that dangerous Online, and sometimes you don't really have an option to ignore those kinds of things. Trolls can be way more than your average joes sometimes.

People will do anything "For the Lulz".

 

[Holder of the Heel]

An individual is alone in the world in a way that they can never make a decision, think, behave, or do anything without escaping themselves, the "mind" does not go beyond the body, and thus there is a division among each man and woman with one another. However, there is something that is shared: the planet, the land, space, air, resources. We're all in the "same boat"; even though we are on one hand defined by our divisions between one person to the next, on the other, there is not a single action we can take, even alone, that does not have an impact, both slight and deep, on those lives that are "Other" to us. In other words, there are consequences to are actions regardless of our inner-isolation, and thus that isolation does not rule without revision from the external world.

And then comes along the internet, which blurs and hides the impact on both ourselves and the effect on others, and so our separation goes unchecked. However, I don't believe censorship or punishment should be enforced. The covering and hunt of what comes from our isolation, born from advances in technology, does not breach the distance between consequence and ourselves. It is not an advancement towards connection and understanding, if anything it will reverse these things. The internet is not the issue, it's our relation to reality, and that can only change through growth and exploration. Destruction and obscurity only slows or fans the flames, neither of which is the goal.

As an example, the goal of government isn't to use the threat of violence to make civilization better, or at least shouldn't be in my view. It's goal is to reach a point where guns and cells aren't needed because society has evolved to a point where the relationship between oneself and others is understood without a third party standing in as a deterrent; a good country isn't known by its many rules but by how little it needs them. When the only reason a person isn't committing a crime is because of a cop or courtroom, the problem didn't go away and the individual is no better. We must continue to cultivate mankind until our, you could say, "omega point". Until then, the ugliness with which we experience now is just a symptom of us having not yet finished our journey, unsurprisingly.

I defer to Socrates, and say that there is no evil and wrong doing, just ignorance, and all knowledge is just the bridges that connect humanity with itself.

 

[SSG SAX GAMER]

The Internet is indeed a very tricky issue when it comes to anonymity and what goes on on it.

Yes, a lot of people who use the Internet will more often than not use it to act out in a manner they will never do in person. There will always be people who abuse the fact that they'll never be truly punished for their actions because they are safely hidden away behind a screen. The worst that could ever possibly happen is if they get banned from the site, blocked by users, or whatever other punishment a site may wish to carry out. Either way a punishment such as banning won't quite change their behavior, and I doubt they'd care.

One of the major issues with the Internet is people actually encourage that sort of behavior in the first place.

People find Trolling to be hilarious and you see people bragging about it or showing it off all the time. You'll see a lot of Text screen caps of people messing with others simply because they got the wrong number, or may of been stupid enough to post it somewhere publicly. You'll see videos of people trolling others in Online Games just for the giggles and views. It doesn't necessarily have to be games either.

Who cares if it's unnecessary? Who cares if it's wrong? It's funny and gets views!

So it's not just anonymity that's the problem, it's the Internet in general and the people who use it. The Internet is so easily accessible now and anyone and their dog can use it. Young kids aren't really being watched by their parents and (this may not speak for everyone's kids) are definitely getting more spoiled by getting IPhones, IPads, and many other devices with Internet Access.

I'm not saying it's just kids who act this way Online; however keep in mind how influenced they are by what's "Cool/Funny/Awseome".

Sadly it's very difficult to censor the Internet or stop this sort of behavior. Many people can not only hide behind just screen-names and a variety of E-Mails, but can also change their IPs and more to make them even more untraceable. There's so many ways you can hide Online, and that makes it much easier for others to act the way and do the things they end up doing Online.



Random Internet Trolls aren't the only problem though. Online Bullying has also gotten severely popular.

Not only can others torment somebody in person, but they can now do it in the convenience of their own homes behind a screen. Also don't forget the "Great MySpace Scares" when News Stories of kids getting lured out into various situations were pretty rampant. And sometimes it's not so simple as "learning to deal with them." A long, long while back (I'm talking like, 8 years or so) I had a friend who had his DeviantArt account hacked, and the hacker posted up very graphic images onto his account. It didn't exactly stop there either.

Turns out the hacker also managed to get his Phone Number and called him frequently. People can get that dangerous Online, and sometimes you don't really have an option to ignore those kinds of things. Trolls can be way more than your average joes sometimes.

People will do anything "For the Lulz".

I do agree with what your saying, but I still believe that the Internet itself is the problem. In that scenario, the thing at fault for the bullying were the people using the Internet. Especially since they hacked, that means they did something unconventional and exploited the Internet in a way that it wasn't meant to be. The root cause is still how people are abusing the Internet in inappropriate ways. I do think they should be punished for that, because it wasn't just trolling. They were breaking the law because that's harassment. I do think there is a difference between censoring internet trolls (which I don't think we should do) and punishing bullies because they are harassing (which I think is something that should happen)

 

[FalKoopa]

The anonymity Internet provides is a boon, because it allows people to talk about things they would be scared of talking about in real life, such as various taboo stuff and ask for advice about personal issues while not having to worry about someone judging you.

And as with other things, Anonymity is abused by Internet trolls and bullies. So there should be limits on it to make sure that you do get punished for something bad enough to be considered a criminal offence.

I believe that for most people, the first instinct on the Internet is not to abuse the anonymity it provides. Otherwise the Internet forums wouldn't have been able to function.

I suppose we can look at it like this: Most governments offer you many rights as a citizen, but can revoke some of them provided that it has sufficient reason for denying you. The same could be done for Internet Anonymity.

Anonymity is a large part of the appeal of the Internet, so removing it not an option (I definitely wouldn't want everyone on this site to know my details), but neither is complete anonymity good (as that encourages negative behaviour).

The solution is probably to regulate it to some extent. I'll admit that my example was rather hypothetical, as I'm exactly sure how you'd regulte something abstract like anonymity, but that's the basic idea. It does exist to an extent given that law enforcement agencies can track you down using your IP and such.

As for how to prevent online bullying and all that, education is the answer. Internet is still quite new and parents and schools don't teach you how should/shouldn't behave online, and people don't realise that they can't get away with everything. You learn that on your own. Of course there are going to be bad apples, but education can reduce such cases somewhat.

 

[Whia]

The more I think about it, the more the argument that "it enables people to say things they couldn't get away with in real life, which is baaaad" is completely insane.

Why can we not get away with saying certain things in real life? What's the underlying implication? Because I'm 100% positive the answer is coercion. Which is ****ing bat****.

Is that what anyone really wants?

I read a quote somewhere that went essentially as follows: if discussion is allowed to take place unhindered, good ideas will eventually supplant bad ideas.

Coercion does not ensure the propagation of good ideas nor the dissipation of bad ones, it ensures the death of open discussion. I don't like to harp on how "oversensitive" people are for a myriad of reasons I won't go into, but quite frankly, those kinds of people definitely exist. There are numerous examples of people saying controversial things, or making stupid jokes, and suffering damage to their livelihood as a result. There are certain instances where I'd have no issue with such a thing (i.e. in the case of the expression of explicit bigotry or attempts to incite violence, etc), but given the current cultural climate, that phenomenon is not limited to those kinds of instances. Online shaming can be a useful tool if the people wielding it weren't so undiscerning and self-important, but alas, no such luck.

So if the Internet gets de-anonymized, I'd wager it becomes a far less conversational place. Which... how the **** is that a good thing, all things considered? . When a dumb joke can lose you your job, when a controversial statement can bring an enormous amount of harassment on you - an endeavour made exponentially easier given you'd be using your real name and thus the potential that said harassment pours over into real life as opposed to just online where it can be ignored. It's an awful idea, especially as the bar for controversy ostensibly gets lower and lower.

Even when it comes to "trolls" - why should their freedom of expression be curtailed? The beautiful thing about the Internet is it's a two way street - as easily as you can be a total ******** to someone with no consequences, you can also completely shut that person out of your life with the click of a button. That's the main thing that keeps me from caring even a little bit about the "victims" of trolls and an additional reason why the idea to de-anonymize the Internet is dumb and pointless. You can stop the "harassment" instantly if you so chose, and so the idea of a universal tool to stop harassment when every individual user already has such a thing at their fingertips... what the hell exactly would even be the point?

Oh yeah it's because we want to satisfy our desire for revenge. It's not enough just stop the harassment (which, again, you can do with remarkable ease), WE NEED TO EXACT VENGEANCE ON OUR ENEMIES. SWIFT AND RIGHTEOUS VENGEANCE!

idk this post might be kind of all over the place, but it's almost 2 in the morning so meh. *posts reply*

 

[Sucumbio]

On a side note I'd just like to say I've always detested the implications behind making the distinction "In real life" vs "The Internet" as if one is mutually exclusive from the other. I realize people understand that the Internet is a part of real life, but this idea that -because- you're on the Internet your actions have somehow LESS impact than if you were face-to-face, is absurd. Words hurt, regardless of their source. But in tying in with what Whia just said, I think the reason "anonymity" avails people a sense of safety is because if someone were to insult you to your face, they'd risk a physical reaction, like a punch to the face. Whereas these are just words on a screen. But I for one choose to conduct myself on the Internet with the same integrity as I would face-to-face. It's just proper. It's what I need to do to sleep at night. Some folks, well they don't care as much. If they tell someone to go kill themselves on Youtube, they think "eh, it's just the internet, so it doesn't count." But I wonder how they'd feel if that person really did do it. It's not as if there isn't several examples of this very thing, so-called Internet Bullying.

 

[Whia]

By the way, is de-anonymizing the Internet even really feasible? Even if every site required a social login, making a fake email address and fake Facebook account is extremely easy, and if that weren't enough to circumvent it, well, proxies and the like are already a thing and they'd find themselves a new use.

So... dumb, pointless and useless. Trifecta.

 

[FalKoopa]

I do not believe that internet should be made any less anonymous than it is. The fact that you can say stuff anonymously is a huge boon, but I don't feel it should mean you are allowed to get away with anything. In those situations, the anonymity does more harm than good.

How far you can go on the internet ideally should be the same as in real life. The freedom of speech allows you to speak your mind but doesn't give you the right to make abuse or disparaging remarks and such.

People have the right to be mean to others within certain limits. Being a jerk to others isn't illegal, but is definitely discouraged. Sane\\me goes for trolling behaviour on the internet.

By the way, is de-anonymizing the Internet even really feasible? Even if every site required a social login, making a fake email address and fake Facebook account is extremely easy, and if that weren't enough to circumvent it, well, proxies and the like are already a thing and they'd find themselves a new use.

So... dumb, pointless and useless. Trifecta.

I think the technology does exist to track down people on the internet if it comes to that. We don't really know the methods that law enforcement agencies employ, do we?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

By the way, is de-anonymizing the Internet even really feasible? Even if every site required a social login, making a fake email address and fake Facebook account is extremely easy, and if that weren't enough to circumvent it, well, proxies and the like are already a thing and they'd find themselves a new use.

So... dumb, pointless and useless. Trifecta.

A lot of places outright won't let you sign up of they can tell you are a proxy.

Some smash facebooks groups outright won't let you join unless they can tell you have a face to hold yourself to.

Proxy's also are not full proof and 95% of the time the person using it doesn't know what they are doing network wise. There are a number of ways to trace it back even if they use one. Really the only way they could I'd if they were a really good hacker which.

Most people are not this.

The more I think about it, the more the argument that "it enables people to say things they couldn't get away with in real life, which is baaaad" is completely insane.

Why can we not get away with saying certain things in real life? What's the underlying implication? Because I'm 100% positive the answer is coercion. Which is ****ing bat****.

Is that what anyone really wants?

I read a quote somewhere that went essentially as follows: if discussion is allowed to take place unhindered, good ideas will eventually supplant bad ideas.

Coercion does not ensure the propagation of good ideas nor the dissipation of bad ones, it ensures the death of open discussion. I don't like to harp on how "oversensitive" people are for a myriad of reasons I won't go into, but quite frankly, those kinds of people definitely exist. There are numerous examples of people saying controversial things, or making stupid jokes, and suffering damage to their livelihood as a result. There are certain instances where I'd have no issue with such a thing (i.e. in the case of the expression of explicit bigotry or attempts to incite violence, etc), but given the current cultural climate, that phenomenon is not limited to those kinds of instances. Online shaming can be a useful tool if the people wielding it weren't so undiscerning and self-important, but alas, no such luck.

So if the Internet gets de-anonymized, I'd wager it becomes a far less conversational place. Which... how the **** is that a good thing, all things considered? . When a dumb joke can lose you your job, when a controversial statement can bring an enormous amount of harassment on you - an endeavour made exponentially easier given you'd be using your real name and thus the potential that said harassment pours over into real life as opposed to just online where it can be ignored. It's an awful idea, especially as the bar for controversy ostensibly gets lower and lower.

Even when it comes to "trolls" - why should their freedom of expression be curtailed? The beautiful thing about the Internet is it's a two way street - as easily as you can be a total ******** to someone with no consequences, you can also completely shut that person out of your life with the click of a button. That's the main thing that keeps me from caring even a little bit about the "victims" of trolls and an additional reason why the idea to de-anonymize the Internet is dumb and pointless. You can stop the "harassment" instantly if you so chose, and so the idea of a universal tool to stop harassment when every individual user already has such a thing at their fingertips... what the hell exactly would even be the point?

Oh yeah it's because we want to satisfy our desire for revenge. It's not enough just stop the harassment (which, again, you can do with remarkable ease), WE NEED TO EXACT VENGEANCE ON OUR ENEMIES. SWIFT AND RIGHTEOUS VENGEANCE!

idk this post might be kind of all over the place, but it's almost 2 in the morning so meh. *posts reply*

Tell a coworker to drink bleach and see what happens.

The difference is reprocusions because we enforce people to act better irl.

Do that on the Internet and will it really get you in trouble?

Issue might be rooted in human nature but really. Do you think people can do that stuff irl when not much will stop them?

I wouldn't let it slide, a lot of other people wouldn't either.

The Internet and irl are different social structures and as such there are differences between them even more so when people might lack a face vs people with one.

 

[Whia]

Tell a coworker to drink bleach and see what happens.

The difference is reprocusions because we enforce people to act better irl.

Do that on the Internet and will it really get you in trouble?

Issue might be rooted in human nature but really. Do you think people can do that stuff irl when not much will stop them?

I wouldn't let it slide, a lot of other people wouldn't either.

The Internet and irl are different social structures and as such there are differences between them even more so when people might lack a face vs people with one.

I'm not entirely sure what your point is or how it pertains to what I wrote, 'cause on the surface you seem to be basically saying what I was saying.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm not entirely sure what your point is or how it pertains to what I wrote, 'cause on the surface you seem to be basically saying what I was saying.

Thought you were implying differently, my mistake.

 

[Sucumbio]

As a moderator I have a somewhat unique perspective on judging the content of other users. There's no doubt that as a website Smashboards tries to uphold a set of standards the same as any community. Put simply there may be a different set of standards, but much of it overlaps with say, public areas, or the workplace.

I think what this means is that human social structures tend to require government or regulations so that grievances can be handled and ideally avoided. "can't we all just get along?" clearly not look at 4Chan lol.

So, anyway, while I agree "repercussions" for inclement behavior may be toned down online vs at your job or at the local pizza Hut, the reason for this is because online interactive experiences are themselves toned down compared to physical ones.

It actually reminds me of my job. I used to work at a call center before changing to in store retail. Dealing with angry customers is a must at both but at the call center you get a lot of brave people cussing you out. At the store level they're less apt to get mouthy beyond a certain point because of the fact they're physically right there in front of you and as such more vulnerable.