An un-fed and Uncustomized amiibo hits harder than you.

[CosmicFuzz]

I'm more concerned with the fact that in addition to doing more damage, Amiibos have perfect air dodges (if you don't frame trap them) and perfect shielding. Every time I fight my Marth Amiibo, he Perfect Shields any approach into an Up Smash/Forward Smash for a good 20%

It basically makes fighting them tedious.

 

[freefun55]

yeah it took me under 1 day to get link and mario to lvl 50 and its not even fun fighting them anymore because they are like almost perfect human fighters! (and do extra damage!)

 

[Khao]

The biggest problem is that there's already a mechanic to make them stronger. If you give them no equipment, you literally end up with a big "BALANCED" sign, when they're anything but balanced.

It's not a total dealbreaker (I know I probably said it was on the last page, but heat of the moment and ****) but it's still a ****ing weird decision that I don't agree with at all.

If you want stronger amiibos, you give them equipment. If you purposefully decide not to give them any, they shouldn't be getting stronger at all. It's just plain logical.

 

[LinkNIvy]

They might patch out the damage multiplier bull **** given feedback, but maybe they really are just a thing to fight other amiibos with or throw into a large battle. Still, makes amiibo tournaments more unique, at least.

 

[eMeFDee]

Don't own the game.
Is there a way to feed equipment that would remove the damage multiplier? And do amiibos also have extra defense?

 

[Patrick Ray]

Don't own the game.
Is there a way to feed equipment that would remove the damage multiplier? And do amiibos also have extra defense?

I have not seen any equipment specific to removing the amiibos increased damage. Although like some said you maybe could use equipment to make your amiibo weaker. They don't gain extra defense but they do suffer less knock back ive noticed.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u/70647861

So yeah. Definitely around a ~1.5x multiplier.

@ Patrick Ray : Have you noticed any speed increases for the amiibo? Such as movement speed, attack speed, aerial speed, rolling speed, or etc?

 

[Patrick Ray]

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u/70647861

So yeah. Definitely around a ~1.5x multiplier.

@ Patrick Ray : Have you noticed any speed increases for the amiibo? Such as movement speed, attack speed, aerial speed, rolling speed, or etc?

All of these.seem to be the exact same as far as I can tell.

 

[Waluigi is too big]

This is rather disappointing.

 

[Draquoir]

I have no problem taking down Amiibos with Shulk. I need to play with them more but for now I still think that it's not a bad partner for training, it's still not game-breakingly strong if you have the patience I think. If anything you get better at not getting hit. I'll admit I can't hit Airslash correctly so nothing beats real opponents. Way better than CPUs though, that's been our consensus(our little group). And for what it's worth, they give you custom moves, parts, etc. So I'm not at all dissatisfied with my purchases.

 

[DakotaBonez]

Dang seriously!?!
All my Amiibo hype has been dashed away.
Glad I didn't waste any money on one yet, thanks for the heads up.
Wait, is it possible that your amiibo picked up a custom item during a battle?
Like I noticed that sometimes during a match against friends, custom parts will fly out, the same way that CDs did in Brawl, maybe your amiibo "ate" one of these custom parts.

 

[IcyFlamz96]

that is devastatingly disappointing UGH so much potential squandered by such a ludicrous design decision.

 

[Patrick Ray]

Dang seriously!?!
All my Amiibo hype has been dashed away.
Glad I didn't waste any money on one yet, thanks for the heads up.
Wait, is it possible that your amiibo picked up a custom item during a battle?
Like I noticed that sometimes during a match against friends, custom parts will fly out, the same way that CDs did in Brawl, maybe your amiibo "ate" one of these custom parts.

Yes I am positive. Never had anything of the sort, Two of my amiibos have played against nothing but me with no items on and yet they still hit harder.

 

[Random4811]

Made a quick video to simply show the amiibo hitting harder even though the settings are normal and custom is turned off.

Are you absolutely sure that the peach hasnt been fed anything? I dont recall there being lightning when peach hits with those attacks. leads me to believe that its a sweetspot v sourspot thing, or she's been fed.
Edit: Never mind, after so many people posting the same results, I understand its not. But the lightning on hit is still odd. Never seen that before.

Anyway, Mabye there is a way to make the Amiibos not stronger than regular players and we're just missing it?

 

[Rochette]

If you feed yourself with some equipments, you could equilibrate with the bonus of your amiibo, maybe.

 

[Patrick Ray]

Are you absolutely sure that the peach hasnt been fed anything? I dont recall there being lightning when peach hits with those attacks. leads me to believe that its a sweetspot v sourspot thing, or she's been fed.
Edit: Never mind, after so many people posting the same results, I understand its not. But the lightning on hit is still odd. Never seen that before.


Anyway, Mabye there is a way to make the Amiibos not stronger than regular players and we're just missing it?

I was considering making a video just showing the amiibos stats afterwords to prove there is 100% nothing on it. Apart from using equipment to try and even things out I don't believe there's anyway around this.

 

[tenfolife]

I also noticed my link amiibo does more damage than me, and I'm quite dissapointed about it, but I guess I'll get better if I keep practicing on him. Here's a video of me fighting mine to show how the amiibo adapts and gets better as I play with it, but you could definitely see the difference in damage too. And watch me get my booty wooped by ai
youtube.com/watch?v=EuagLK_G1kM
I reseted my amiibo also and still the same effect of the amiibo dealing more damage than normal at level 50.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

youtube.com/watch?v=EuagLK_G1kM

Link Fresh Dthrow: (7+1)x1.5 = 12%. Did 12% in the video.

Link Fresh Uncharged Arrow: (4+1)x1.5 = 7.5%. Did 7% in the video.

Link Fresh Nair: (11+1)x1.5 = 18%. Did 19% in the video (probably due to extra fractional values)

Link Fresh Ftilt: (13+1)x1.5 = 21%. Did 22% in the video (probably due to extra fractional values)

HOLY CRAP THAT SHIELDBREAK AT 2 MINUTES IN WTF

Link Fresh Fair 1st Hit: (8+1)x1.5 = 13.5%. Did 14% in the video (probably due to...you probably get it by now lol)

Link Usmash (all 3 hits): (18+1)x1.5 = 28.5%. Did 29% in the video. Also, OUCH.

Link's second fresh Ftilt still does 22% at 2:30 in the video.

Link Fresh Boomerang at Close Range: (7+1)x1.5 = 12%. It does 15% in the video. (ohgawdwat)

The second boomerang he throws right after that does 14% damage. So it loses the extra 1% fresh bonus but the value is consistent.

Link Fresh Fthrow: (7+1)x1.5 = 12%. Does 12% in the video. Same value as boomerang but ends up doing less (proper) damage.


So yeah. Everything seems mostly consistent with the x1.5 damage multiplier thus far. Meaning that it should apply to all amiibos, and not just Peach/Link. The only value that was weird was the boomerang. idk why it decided to do more damage than it was supposed to.

 

[the8thark]

We know the Amiibo hit for 1.5x damage. But why in hell does this even happen in the first place? I don't get why Sakurai did it like this.

 

[Gaxel]

I have a perfect Samus amiibo in my eyes with roughly +50 attack, +25 defense and +0 speed.

I can beat her SOMETIMES. Because RIP when she lands a fully-charged B.

 

[ChikoLad]

We know the Amiibo hit for 1.5x damage. But why in hell does this even happen in the first place? I don't get why Sakurai did it like this.

It only kicks in at Level 50, so I can only assume they thought it would be a nice reward for training your Amiibo to get to that level.

 

[Cobra]

I understand that a lvl 50 Amiibo is a strong opponent with an unfair 1.5x damage multiplier at lvl 50, AND the ability to further customize it, but is that really so bad?

Real growth in any fighting game doesn't come from playing and beating things under your level... it comes from getting your butt handed to you over and over again until you finally get good enough to take it down. That was my experience in competitive Melee and Brawl. Seems to me it makes for a good challenge in fighting a tweaked out Amiibo, even if it is outrageously unfair.

Just my two cents.

 

[Tyril132]

I have a perfect Samus amiibo in my eyes with roughly +50 attack, +25 defense and +0 speed.

I can beat her SOMETIMES. Because RIP when she lands a fully-charged B.

I feel your pain. A fully charged Aura Sphere @ 100% HP failed to overwrite my Samus Amiibo's super missile (it should normally destroy the missile and keep going.) The same sphere at 110% didn't even cancel Samus' charged plasma shot, which actually got me killed.

She's basically a level 9 CPU with a huge damage buff and the "Run away" AI turned on.

Seems to me it makes for a good challenge in fighting a tweaked out Amiibo, even if it is outrageously unfair.

This is basically my view on it, but it was pretty surprising to suddenly find that its attacks were overwriting things that they shouldn't normally have been overwriting. In a match-up like vs. , this changes the dynamics of the MU quite a bit, which basically makes it good for practicing hitting evasive targets but useless for learning move and range priorities.

 

[Azew]

Well that's intresting. I wish they just had good AI, instead of hitting harder. If the amiibo AI isn't challenging I'd rather just fight a friend, who doesn't need the game to bend in their favor to be good.

 

[MadKraken]

So Amiibos are basically Chaos...

I am okay with this.

 

[K-45]

I feel your pain. A fully charged Aura Sphere @ 100% HP failed to overwrite my Samus Amiibo's super missile (it should normally destroy the missile and keep going.) The same sphere at 110% didn't even cancel Samus' charged plasma shot, which actually got me killed.

She's basically a level 9 CPU with a huge damage buff and the "Run away" AI turned on.


This is basically my view on it, but it was pretty surprising to suddenly find that its attacks were overwriting things that they shouldn't normally have been overwriting. In a match-up like vs. , this changes the dynamics of the MU quite a bit, which basically makes it good for practicing hitting evasive targets but useless for learning move and range priorities.

OK giving an amiibo higher priority on all of his moves and 1.5x damage multi. Ya
Amiibos aren't ment for training. I feel like they are more ment for betting between u and your friend on who has the better amiibo.

 

[Tyril132]

OK giving an amiibo higher priority on all of his moves and 1.5x damage multi. Ya
Amiibos aren't ment for training. I feel like they are more ment for betting between u and your friend on who has the better amiibo.

I understand what you're getting at, but I've seen people making this point throughout the thread and I want to address it.

Green shells and enclosed stages like Onett weren't meant for training, but that doesn't mean they're not useful for practicing things like tippers. Bomb-Bombs and the Final Destination platform edge weren't made for training, but that doesn't mean they're not useful for practicing wall techs and recovery.

I understand that providing a competitive, dynamic sparring partner isn't what they're "designed for", which is why I spar against actual players. That doesn't mean they don't have value as a training tool if used to supplement other methods. Plus, sometimes I want a challenge but just don't feel like dealing with lag and flavor of the month spam in FG.

 

[Rojo Espada]

Good lord.
Can you imagine how much a reverse Warlock Punch would do from a level 50 Ganondorf amiibo?

May Sakurai save us all.

 

[ChikoLad]

Well that's intresting. I wish they just had good AI, instead of hitting harder. If the amiibo AI isn't challenging I'd rather just fight a friend, who doesn't need the game to bend in their favor to be good.

It's not that the AI ISN'T good, they just have these buffs on top of it all.

I've been hearing of people being outclassed by their Amiibo at around Level 30, and the buffs only kick in at Level 50.

 

[Tumbleweed Tuner]

We know the Amiibo hit for 1.5x damage. But why in hell does this even happen in the first place? I don't get why Sakurai did it like this.

Most likely to make my amiibo good, even if I barely knew what I was doing when I trained it. I started teaching Samus while learning the game pad controls for example. It is like curving the results of a test to better match the others.

 

[Azew]

It's not that the AI ISN'T good, they just have these buffs on top of it all.

I've been hearing of people being outclassed by their Amiibo at around Level 30, and the buffs only kick in at Level 50.

Fair enough, but I would still rather fight against human opponents as they do play differently than AI, and I do practice for humans after all.

 

[Cobra]

I think everyone would rather play vs. humans, but its not always possible and the online play isnt always smooth.

As said before, sometimes you just need t practice your own techniques and execution and combos. A lvl 50 maxed out amiibo is a good test for things like that. If it punishes your mistakes for 30% damage, all the better to teach you your lesson. Personally, my amiibo has already showed me a few bad sides of my play... focusing on aerials too much, and neglecting my grab game.

Its been enjoyable practice.

 

[Weldar]

Are we sure the bonuses only kick in at 50, because I finally found why I wasn't surprised by this. Right there on offcial website's amiibo page it straight up says: "The higher your FP’s level is, the better its attack and defence stats will be."
That page also mentions the whole learning thing is not tied to level, they can keep learning new things at level 50. I'd actually been assuming amiibo's stats would gradually ramp up with their levels like an rpg or something if they just go from nothing to a huge boost at 50 that'd actually be really surprsing to me.

 

[cardboardowl]

This makes me want to get an amiibo more, not less.

OFC human opponents are better, but sometimes if no one is around and i want to play, lvl 9 computers aren't a challenge at all.

This basically allows me to always need to try, even against computers.

 

[cot(θ)]

Does anyone know of a workaround for this? A few possibilities come to mind.

- If it's possible to delay your Amiibo from leveling up somehow, we could identify the level at which the Amiibo's stats are normal, and keep it there.
- If people have identified items which can reduce speed, power and defense, we can try to identify a particular combination of these which will reduce the lvl 50 Amiibo to approximately balanced stats.

I don't have the Wii U version yet, but I'm planning on getting it in the future, and the idea of a balanced learning AI really appeals to me much more than one that gets an unfair stats advantage.

 

[LancerStaff]

The tips said lvl 1 Amiibo are weaker then normal, while 50s are stronger. So 25 or 26 are probably normal. The problem being that Amiibo don't really get that smart until 40 or so.

 

[Patrick Ray]

The tips said lvl 1 Amiibo are weaker then normal, while 50s are stronger. So 25 or 26 are probably normal. The problem being that Amiibo don't really get that smart until 40 or so.

I currently have leveled up 8 Amiibos and have found that they begin to hit normally around 30 and begin to hit harder than you around early 40s. Their intelligence starts to break in around 20 to 25. That is when I notice amiibos start to do combos a normal CPU would not try and accomplish.

 

[cot(θ)]

If leaving the Amiibos at a neutral level isn't feasible, then we should start looking into feeding it equipment with negative stats to balance it out. It would be awesome if someone came up with some numbers regarding how much negative-stat equipment the Amiibo will have to eat before it becomes normal. Sadly, this is probably different for each character, and I have neither a Wii U, nor the time for such an undertaking.

 

[daguyontheladder]

If leaving the Amiibos at a neutral level isn't feasible, then we should start looking into feeding it equipment with negative stats to balance it out. It would be awesome if someone came up with some numbers regarding how much negative-stat equipment the Amiibo will have to eat before it becomes normal. Sadly, this is probably different for each character, and I have neither a Wii U, nor the time for such an undertaking.

the equipment known for giving some rather low placement(as if to make something negative) would be ones that give secondary effects. I have no idea if this will still apply to "custom off" but given that amiibo keep their stat boosts no matter what I would assume that these will stay. giving them item bearing patchs could work, as "all items off" restricts them from appearing, but I still wonder how someone would be able to pull it off.

 

[Dark Dr. Pink-Gold Pit Jr]

How long did it take to level one to 50?

Depends on how many you are training at once; I trained my Mario and Kirby together and they made it to 50 in less than 3 hours