An observation about Time matches (and possibly a big flaw in with anyone mode)

[Nothingman]

Back in older Melee days, me and a buddy of mine where fans of time mode, especially in team battles, so we would play time instead of stock from time to time.

eventually we figured out that if you kill you opponent, he gets a -1 score and you get a +1 score by default, bringing you ahead 2 points. But if you commit suicide, it only gives you a -1 and nothing for your opponent setting you back by only 1 point.

so after a while, whenever either of us got into the high percentages (certain death soon) we would just commit suicide, and forfeit the 1 point knowing the opposition wouldnt get the chance to bump up 2 points.

fight, kill you opponent, he comes back, you do some more damage, but when it looks like you're about to die, kill yourself. now both of you have died once, but you're still ahead in points.

we realized this was a flaw in time mode (i mean you shouldnt be wanting to kill yourself in any fighting game) and it seems nintendo did too because there was a specific option to make suicides count as -2 (which is what we eventually did).

this hasnt been so much a problem in melee, because the general mass prefers stock, which i think works fine in 1v1s. now unless theres more to "with anyone" mode than sakurai has told us, it looks like games are 2 minute timed matches. Also, i doubt that the default point loss for suicides has changed from -1.

1 points is a big deal in a match thats only 2 minutes long, since there wont be many kills in that short of a time. I expect eventually there will be a big number of people that will end up exploiting this online, using suicides towards their advantage. This would just make online somewhat less of a good experience. (not that it sounds much better than fighting 3 comps anyway )

what do you all think? Discuss

 

[MookieRah]

What if you had an accidental suicide? Now it would count off double! What if you were winning till then?

I think time matches are just flawed in general.

 

[Super_alex2]

I think you'll be able to choose stock or time or whatever other modes when you host a game.
edit: Assuming you can host a game.

 

[dj_pwn1423]

you dont host, people just "vote" the settings.

 

[Nothingman]

What if you had an accidental suicide? Now it would count off double! What if you were winning till then?

I think time matches are just flawed in general.

then i guess you're a**ed out? play better?
an accidental suicide should count the same as someone killing you even if its an accident.

"oh no, i just accidently died, but at least you didnt kill me! then it would have counted as double!"

the game shouldnt reward people or take it easy on them because they messed up

 

[Grim Spandango]

I think if you get a KO you should get +1, but if you die, you lose no points. If you do commit suicide though, you should get -1.

 

[gigasteve]

I never thought of it that way until recently. It doesn't matter because I do 9/10 matches stock.

 

[Nothingman]

I think if you get a KO you should get +1, but if you die, you lose no points. If you do commit suicide though, you should get -1.

i agree, this really would have been the best way to do it.

 

[ripman3]

just do what my friends do and set suicides to -2

 

[Iceman12]

Well, with 4 player timed matches, its quite a bit easier to get a KO after you've died, so making up the -1 you got from getting zapped isnt too hard, but in 1 v 1 it is indeed a flaw.

 

[lex.aut]

if more than 2 players play a time based game, the luck factor gets a lot bigger.
imagine: you duel with an opponent till you almost got him, and then... ZACK! another player comes from behind and steals your KO.
i like to play FFAs, but only with stocks. if someone tries to hide he gets owned anyway.

 

[darkNES386]

I'm sorry, but I think that's just lame.

I don't think you're the only one that knows about this. Unless you have money riding on it or your in a time tournament... what's the point of winning that way?

There aren't any points or rankings online... so why do something silly to win a time match against some complete stranger? Plus, you're probably better then this person if you drew the first blood by getting the first KO.

That's lamer than in MSC when a player stands right in front of the goal in an attempt to dwindle the time of the game down. Why not just not kill yourself and survive for two minutes? Or run away?

EDIT: I wouldn't be surprised if all the testers are fully aware of this and decided to make it where the last person that touched you get's credit for your suicide.

 

[Froilen]

when you play in teams whit frienly fire on, an time matches with suicides -2 and kill your partner... you get -2 and the other -1 contrdaproducent if you remember the smash 64 remember... in the same conditions you get a +1 an your oponent -1 useful in higth %

 

[Spellman]

Wow, I can't believe I never thought of that flaw in time mode. I guess it's from so much avoiding time matches that I didn't discover this. Cool observation.

 

[Iceman12]

I enjoy both modes actually, probably about equal. I do a lot of timed KO fests but a lot of 4 stock too.

 

[ron561]

Back in older Melee days, me and a buddy of mine where fans of time mode, especially in team battles, so we would play time instead of stock from time to time.

eventually we figured out that if you kill you opponent, he gets a -1 score and you get a +1 score by default, bringing you ahead 2 points. But if you commit suicide, it only gives you a -1 and nothing for your opponent setting you back by only 1 point.

so after a while, whenever either of us got into the high percentages (certain death soon) we would just commit suicide, and forfeit the 1 point knowing the opposition wouldnt get the chance to bump up 2 points.

fight, kill you opponent, he comes back, you do some more damage, but when it looks like you're about to die, kill yourself. now both of you have died once, but you're still ahead in points.

we realized this was a flaw in time mode (i mean you shouldnt be wanting to kill yourself in any fighting game) and it seems nintendo did too because there was a specific option to make suicides count as -2 (which is what we eventually did).

this hasnt been so much a problem in melee, because the general mass prefers stock, which i think works fine in 1v1s. now unless theres more to "with anyone" mode than sakurai has told us, it looks like games are 2 minute timed matches. Also, i doubt that the default point loss for suicides has changed from -1.

1 points is a big deal in a match thats only 2 minutes long, since there wont be many kills in that short of a time. I expect eventually there will be a big number of people that will end up exploiting this online, using suicides towards their advantage. This would just make online somewhat less of a good experience. (not that it sounds much better than fighting 3 comps anyway )

what do you all think? Discuss

It actually took you guys some time to figure this out?It's common sense.Time matches can be exploited in so many ways,which is why competitive players don't play with just time.