An indepth look at Pit

[lob]

(this is my first time posting to smashboards beyond casually replying to a thread, sorry if I'm doing something wrong)



It might surprise you that Pit is a pretty aggressive, string heavy character, despite having a fully controllable projectile, superb recovery, and general sense of floatiness to him. Most his moves deal moderate hitstun with noticeable, but not awful lag to them. At low percent, he has plenty of strings and possibly some true combos to his disposal. Utilt/Uthrow => Uair, Dthrow => Fair chains offstage, Dtilt => Dash attack => Grab, among others. Pits tilts, throws, and aerials are superb.

However, at high percent his great string potential comes to an end. Pit's strong neutral game comes at a price; the boy can't kill. Ftilt and Bair sweetspots are the only things that kill at reasonable percent, and as amazing as his new Side B looks at first glace, it really doesn't kill until around 160%. His smashes *will* kill, but they're awfully predictable. Usmash kills at the lowest percent, around ~110%, but the janky hitboxes don't hit anyone adjacent to Pit. Fsmash kills at similar percent, but only near the ledge, where people don't like being at high percent.

No, to kill as Pit, you're going to gimp and you're going to like it. Pit goes balls deep offstage and can come back with 4 jumps and his Up B that goes stupid high. You can chain Fair past the horizontal blast zones, and Dair has a meteor sweetspot in the middle of the swipe. It's tricky to land, but you'll get the hang of it. Your arrows are probably the best thing in the game for gimping recoveries, seeing as they're fully controllable and move pretty fast when charged up. It's possible to even Ken combo (or maybe more realistically, Ken string) people offstage with your meteor Dair. I cannot emphasize enough that Pit can go offstage and back onstage just fine, it should not be out of your comfort zone to do so.



Now, let's look at of Pit's misunderstood moves: the Upperdash Arm. This move isn't as strong as an approach as players think it may be. It has some super armor and strong damage, which is nice, but that's the beginning and end of nice things I have to say for it. Unlike Falcon's Raptor Boost in previous games, it does too much knockback for any real followups, and unlike Falcon's current Raptor Boost, it's not enough to really kill at a reasonable percent. It also bounces back projectiles, which is indeed nice, but you already have a move that does that! And if you do hit a projectile back, it stops your approach before you've reached the other player, where we reach this moves core issue:

This move has so much lag it's absurd. The amount of recovery frames is around **a full second.** Even longer if you whiff it in the air. It's shorter if you land the attack, but your dash is so telegraphed and so easily prevented that it's beyond easy to follow up from. No, Upperdash Arm is more of a mixup to keep people on their toes. It doesn't kill that well, and it doesn't lead into strings, but it packs a punch and punishes missed, laggy attacks pretty well. If the other player misses a Falcon Punch or has a particularly laggy move, go for it. But don't use it the second a match starts, please.

Before we continue, let's take a brief look at another one of Pit's specials: the Guardian Orbitars! I never see Pits use these, and they're really not a bad move or anything. I feel like most players forget it exists, but take advantage of that. Projectile heavy characters like Duckhunt or Samus will have them blasted right back in their face, and they won't see it coming. Just remember that when you use it, the other player will actually remember that it exists. Use it as a mixup option, don't overuse it.



Pits light weight is both a blessing and a curse. It aids your recovery; if it weren't for your jumps, weight, and distance on your Up B, Pit couldn't come off and onstage as much as he really needs to. However, it makes you moderately susceptible to vertical KO's and makes you particularly easy to juggle. However, if you're being juggled, now's not a bad time to make use of your Side B we were just talking about. Pit can be juggled easily, but he's actually pretty tough to kill. If you get offstage, you can come back no sweat- just be sure to sweetspot the ledge. As mentioned before, Pits aerials and recovery are ace.

However, you really don't want to be above anyone as Pit. He's juggle meat for plenty of characters, and on stages like Final Destination with no platforms to fall onto, there's only so much he can do to get back down (Slightly unrelated, but I'm sure that's why Pits are so rare in For Glory. Players pick him, don't have much time to learn him, and get frustrated that they have so much trouble landing safely.) No, being underneath the other players is ideal for Pit. Utilt and Uair eat through platforms on Battlefield and other stages, opening up opportunities for strings and combos on other players. Platforms also give Pit the breathing room he really needs to get back on the ground.

Pit thrives in an aggressive environment, and against characters that don't have many opportunities to out-ham him. Other aggro characters, such as Diddy and Yoshi, have a particularly good matchup against Pit since they have amazing Uairs that juggle the hell out of Pit. Characters with fast speeds and fundamentals like Sonic or Captain Falcon can really give Pit issues, as well. Although Pit himself is aggressive, he doesn't have much tools to deal with counter-aggression.



So, in conclusion: Pit is an aggressive, string oriented character that hits hard and gets hit hard. Because of his trouble killing, going offstage to secure kills is Pits normalcy and gameplan. Counterpicking platform heavy stages like Battlefield or Town and City is ideal for his style of play, helping him get down onto solid ground should he be juggled, and opening up combo and string opportunities. He has a strong edgeguarding tool in his arrows, and strong punishment in his Upperdash Arm.

Pit has more competitive edge than one would initially expect. Taking advantage of Pits strong neutral game and respecting his issues killing is crucial to playing him well. I hope you take this advice to heart and sink your teeth into Pit.

 

[LancerStaff]

I'd say you're fine posting it here.

And I agree with most everything you've said, but I wouldn't say he's entirely an aggressive character. There's nothing wrong with playing as him offensively though, since he's versatile like that. I prefer to punish my opponent with grabs and DAs instead of outright attacking with them. Fairs, Bairs, and Nairs for spacing, jab for keeping quicker moving characters off you.

And a little nitpick: Upperdash KOs at 130-140% in training depending on the version, even faster when fresh. (And it should be.)

 

[Strider_123]

i agree with most things you said but others not so much.
Agree:
-trouble with killing (but i can manage that)
-Guardian Orbitars are very good!
-trouble with getting juggled
-Punishable while recovering

Disagree
-Upperdash arm being nearly useless
- lag for the arm is justified
- can be played both ways not just aggressive (although thats kinda how i play him)
Also to add, his fast fall is not very good in fact its hardly a difference from his regular fall.

 

[lob]

i agree with most things you said but others not so much.
Disagree
-Upperdash arm being nearly useless
- lag for the arm is justified

i didn't mean to suggest that it's useless, just that it's definitely not a strong approach option and not his ideal kill move

 

[Phaigne]

Ahhh, an actually good informative post.

I'll add a few things:
Pit is an aerial character. His Short Hopped aerials are great, better than they were in brawl, where in my opinion they were his bread and butter anyways.

Almost all of his aerials have cancellable lag with a short hop, meaning every singe one can be used as an approach, though only N-air and f-air are great for this, though I do recommend you use D-Air from time to time, it actually has some uses as well. (I can elaborate if anyone is interested.)

His side B is pretty much just bad. I know I'll get some disagreements here, but seriously, where does it fit in to his game? The only answer I can come up with is a surprise finisher, and I challenge someone to demonstrate another use that isn't already established by a superior alternative. (Im actually exploring a few myself but haven't found anything concrete yet)

I have already spoken about his aerials being great, and most of you know that already but something I haven't seen mentioned is a follow up after a SH Aerial. Pit has several options here. If done right, he is able to throw out a F-Smash, D-Smash, D-Tilt, F-Tilt, Dash attack (Pretty sure you can buffer this and it's almost immediate) and more (Those are probably the most useful though) with almost no down time between aerial and ground attacks. This can be a great set up for a variety of finisher and psuedo combos.

Also, old news but Pits DACUS is great as well. While his up smash isn't the best in the game, it is very well balanced and even has some unexpected reach. One use iv'e found with this outside of just a smash, it seems that if you angle and time right you can use the first part of U-Smash to do some damage and drag a character down and combo almost immediately into the 3 hit neutral A. Semi useful for building damage and position. I believe it can lead into several other moves as well, but that's my favorite.

Also, I promise I'm not picking on you Strider, but I don't believe Pit has any advantage being played defensively over offensively. He could be campy in Brawl, but has lost almost all of his characteristics that supported that play style in SSB4. There are too many characters that can outcamp him now so maybe without those matchups he could be defensive, but whats the point on learning that style when in over half the matches it will get you outcamped. Just my thoughts though, Pits new Meta has not been refined almost at all yet, so we could see some changes here.

 

[Strider_123]

Ahhh, an actually good informative post.

I'll add a few things:
Pit is an aerial character. His Short Hopped aerials are great, better than they were in brawl, where in my opinion they were his bread and butter anyways.

Almost all of his aerials have cancellable lag with a short hop, meaning every singe one can be used as an approach, though only N-air and f-air are great for this, though I do recommend you use D-Air from time to time, it actually has some uses as well. (I can elaborate if anyone is interested.)

His side B is pretty much just bad. I know I'll get some disagreements here, but seriously, where does it fit in to his game? The only answer I can come up with is a surprise finisher, and I challenge someone to demonstrate another use that isn't already established by a superior alternative. (Im actually exploring a few myself but haven't found anything concrete yet)

I have already spoken about his aerials being great, and most of you know that already but something I haven't seen mentioned is a follow up after a SH Aerial. Pit has several options here. If done right, he is able to throw out a F-Smash, D-Smash, D-Tilt, F-Tilt, Dash attack (Pretty sure you can buffer this and it's almost immediate) and more (Those are probably the most useful though) with almost no down time between aerial and ground attacks. This can be a great set up for a variety of finisher and psuedo combos.

Also, old news but Pits DACUS is great as well. While his up smash isn't the best in the game, it is very well balanced and even has some unexpected reach. One use iv'e found with this outside of just a smash, it seems that if you angle and time right you can use the first part of U-Smash to do some damage and drag a character down and combo almost immediately into the 3 hit neutral A. Semi useful for building damage and position. I believe it can lead into several other moves as well, but that's my favorite.

Also, I promise I'm not picking on you Strider, but I don't believe Pit has any advantage being played defensively over offensively. He could be campy in Brawl, but has lost almost all of his characteristics that supported that play style in SSB4. There are too many characters that can outcamp him now so maybe without those matchups he could be defensive, but whats the point on learning that style when in over half the matches it will get you outcamped. Just my thoughts though, Pits new Meta has not been refined almost at all yet, so we could see some changes here.

well to be fair i play offensively as well but you can use the arrows to get them to chase you and thats when you can follow up with the upperdash arm. its great when you know they are trying to go brute force. He to me, is balanced. Others can play the defensive game better but at the same time so can others play a better offensive game like sonic, and little mac.

 

[Phaigne]

Yeah, Pit is most definitely in the middle of the class both offensively and defensively. The reason why i detest a defensive play style for Pit beyond the presence of more defensive oriented characters is:

While he may have some defensive tools (Arrows, Guardian Orbitars, and Upperdash {I'd dispute this but I can see the argument for it.}) the priorities as well as the actual damage potential for these moves is quite limited. Mediocre reflector and a low priority projectile make us low on that list as well as the overall increase in movement speed has already diminished some of the appeal of a defensive playstyle in general. (Ledge changes really changed a lot with this as well)

Pits arrow are for minor damage, gimping, and interrupting momentum. In Brawl, you could use arrows to slow an opponents approach as well as loop them much more to ensure you throw of an opponents momentum by either hitting them or controlling their movement patterns. Since arrows are much slower now as well as loop less, these possibilities are limited, not too mention many of the other characters have had boosts to their projectiles in terms of priority damage and frequency (Many more chars have projectiles it seems now).

Its not that we don't have some tools, I just think in comparison to our offensive capabilities, it wouldn't be wise to choose defense over offense until we see some evolution of Pits playstyle.

That being said, I'm not directly ruling it out. in fact I'm trying some ideas with a defensive style, they just overall have seemed bland and mediocre, not just in comparison to other chars, but also in contrast to our own full moveset. If anything I can sort of see a blended style with Pit, though I would still say he leans offensively.

 

[LancerStaff]

His side B is pretty much just bad. I know I'll get some disagreements here, but seriously, where does it fit in to his game? The only answer I can come up with is a surprise finisher, and I challenge someone to demonstrate another use that isn't already established by a superior alternative. (Im actually exploring a few myself but haven't found anything concrete yet)

Edgeguarding and general punishes. No, I don't expect a KO by edgeguarding with his, (Dork Pit, on the other hand...) but 9% and popping the opponent up onto the air for a potential follow-up is pretty good, don't you think?

 

[Phaigne]

Edgeguarding and general punishes. No, I don't expect a KO by edgeguarding with his, (Dork Pit, on the other hand...) but 9% and popping the opponent up onto the air for a potential follow-up is pretty good, don't you think?

Depends, a late game punish? Absolutely, pull out that Upperdash. As far as edgeguarding goes, I honestly think you have a better chance chasing them off the ledge with aerials, though I can see the potential you speak of. Its just so telegraphed and laggy that until we can figure a way out to diminish that lag (Again something Ive heard whispers of and am working on) we would be better of exploring our other options. That being said, my playstyle does not prefer the Upperdash personally outside of a rare surprise kill; you may have some useful input that I am overlooking simply by actually using the dang move more than me.

 

[LancerStaff]

Depends, a late game punish? Absolutely, pull out that Upperdash. As far as edgeguarding goes, I honestly think you have a better chance chasing them off the ledge with aerials, though I can see the potential you speak of. Its just so telegraphed and laggy that until we can figure a way out to diminish that lag (Again something Ive heard whispers of and am working on) we would be better of exploring our other options. That being said, my playstyle does not prefer the Upperdash personally outside of a rare surprise kill; you may have some useful input that I am overlooking simply by actually using the dang move more than me.

I'll use it directly against recoveries, namely. Like Link or DK's Uspecials. Most times, if not all, "hitting" an air dodge with it triggers the uppercut too, so it's theoretically safe to use against even Peach and Jigglypuff's recoveries.

 

[Phaigne]

I'll use it directly against recoveries, namely. Like Link or DK's Uspecials. Most times, if not all, "hitting" an air dodge with it triggers the uppercut too, so it's theoretically safe to use against even Peach and Jigglypuff's recoveries.

I may have to play with it some more. My biggest qualm with that (Other than the aforementioned start-up and ending lag) is, wouldn't I rather try to go for the horizontal blast zone instead of the vertical when ledge guarding (Other than maybe a spike which is technically vertical). Usually when an opponent is in their Up-B I prefer to shield grab then throw them right off again. Though, angle of approach could definitely change my tactics there, though most people approaching an edge with an Up-B from below should be sweetspotting anyways making both tactics somewhat less useful.

Though I do like the idea of it still setting off the uppercut even through a dodge. I knew it had a large amount of active damage frames and that was already one of the characteristics I saw potential for, so that may actually be a great possibility to explore.

Also can we talk about how great Pits grab is in comparison to Brawl. I use a ton of grabs now!

 

[Sneak Sneaks]

Actually I think Upperdash Arm is good for approaching when recovering, if spmeone is charging an smash attack you can safely comeback either hitting before they attack or hitting after the attack thanks to super armor or also you can grab to the edge safely after taking projectiles

 

[ChaoticRoy]

Upperdash Arm is not a move that should be used to approach. This move actually shines as a Punish or Recovery move. It kills at high percents (Around 120~150, Earlier if you caught an opponent charging an Smash attack) and thanks to the armor is perfect to punish Dash attacks, rolls or landing lag. But this move is specially useful as a recovery option. The armor make you go through characters attacks or straight out hitting them. You will deflect projectiles send at you and in some cases reflecting them. So it's an excellent move to mix your Recovery. Another thing. The ending lag of UpperArm dash can be ledge cancelled making it even more useful in stages like Battlefield.

Now moving to a more interesting especial. The Guardian Orbitars. This move is amazing but not for the reasons you tell in your post. This move has so much ending lag to actually work as a reflector most of the time. and here's why.
You can't use your Orbitars near grounded opponents, neither to reflect spamable projectiles unless you are really far away from your opponent.
The reason of this is that unlike other reflect type moves like Mario's cape or Fox's reflector, Pit's Orbitars have painful amounts of ending lag. Spamable projectiles were made to not have a lot of knockback nor hitstun and mostly be used to interrupt movements. Because of this even if you manage to get the read and reflect, for example, Dog Hunt Dog Wild Gunman or Clay pidgeon up close he will just be slighty annoyed and then ready to attack or grab before you get out of the ending lag from the orbitars.
This move was meant to reflect strong blast like Samus Charge Shot, Robin's Thoron, Megaman's FSmash, etc. aside from those they don't work as a good reflector.

Now the reason that Orbitars are awesome it's because of his windbox and shield proprieties. The Windbox that push people away from Pit when he is using them is surprisingly good to gimp a lot of recoveries when opponents try to sweetspot the ledge. The most common example is gimping Ness PK Thunder and PK Thunder 2, but it works in other moves, for instance, I have denied Pikachu's Quick Attack by timing them at the right time. And last but not least, Thanks that you are semi-invulnerable while using them they are great to scape juggles. If you know your opponent is going to follow you in the air and do an attack is safe to pop them for a sec. You will get unharmed and in some cases the Windbox will send the opponent up basically trading places with you.

And well that's pretty much it.