An in depth thread for Falco because everyone else has one.

[Onehandbackhand]

Hey fellow Falco mains. I plan to start one of those fancy threads with pictures and explanations and videos due to my recently aquired capture card. Due to my job in the Navy and duty I don't have the ability to start on it today but tomorrow I will start the thread and anyone interested in helping just message me. No one seems to be maining Falco but since we have a lack of any of the notable pros and players in general running him off as a bad or "low tier" character we need to come together as Falco mains and change the metagame for him. I mean even Wii-Fit trainer has more information because of Tkbreezy using her in tourney. I digress. Tomorrow Japan time because thats where I live, I will have this thread edited and much more informative. I will take any and all suggestions because I literally have learned to play this character on my own and want to share all the knowledge I have found. Thank you for your time and Falco will fly again.

 

[Beach]

Well all the power to you, hopefully you and the people helping can build up his meta game. As of now, at least for me, I am hoping with Mew Two comes a patch with some buffs for Falco.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

Good luck my fellow seaman, haha.
Please, if you need any help do not hesitate to ask, I don't have a capture card or anything, but I am up for a helping hand.

 

[BltzZ]

Cant wait to see what you come up with. I'm excited cant wait to contribute to your guide!

 

[gameplayzero]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYWXCTKKDV0

This is isn't specifically for falco, but I want everyone who doesn't know much about competitive play NEEDS to see this. I will make a falco guide after I've played more matches on nintendodojo so I can back what I say up, but this is a good place to start.

 

[GreatDave]

Onehandbackhand, I'm looking forward to see what you'll post here. People is stuck with this thing..."Falco has been nerfed, is bad, is awful, blablabla..."
Now it's time to stop, I know he can be great again. Even though I've been using the bird since Melee, I'm starting just now to learn something really "competitive"...so I dunno how I could help. But I'm gonna check this thread soon

 

[Beta_Smash]

Falco is pretty bad though.
• Lack of kill options
• Predictable and gimpable recovery
• Short-Medium Range
• Aerials aren't the best
• Fairly slow ground speed
• Very short grab range
• Priority isn't the greatest
• Fairly light
• Easy to juggle

I still play Falco but I see little potential when compared to the better characters. You have to make TONS of smart reads that arent usually too rewarding.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

But that's completely wrong, Falco has at least 3 kill moves on stage, dtilt, dsmash, fsmash, you can count uptilt if you can use it effectively.
Off stage his fair is a gimp king, and bair can kill at 90% depending on character weight.
Fair and dair have crazy high priority, and Falco still has the highest jump in the game, making his fair and dair have use in the air off of his dtilt and dthrow.
You aren't using him correctly.
In short, this ain't Melee

 

[Beta_Smash]

Do you have any idea how easy it is to get around fair? Dair is easy to see coming. ( You have to get a read to hit then with either ).

Also Dsmash isn't that great (I haven't had many good results so I think it's better off as a punish move). Fsmash is a good move if you can get a read, which should kill around the 80-90% mark on lights and probably 110-120% on heavies.

Also I'm using him correctly, I'm winning matches. This is a POKE character that is easily outranged.

You get a poke and capitalize. If you're having success killing with fair you must be making a read, even after that you still have to recover which can lead to us dying if we miss.
- - - - -
It's like this in a match

• We start in neutral : We have dash attack, grab, and laser as a viable option. Grab is our best bet as it can string into dash attack HOWEVER they can DI to where we miss the dash attack and boom free punish.

• Offstage : we have to be smart with recovery, as it's super predictable. Learning to wall tech is almost a requirement since GOOD players will punish you.

• Fast characters can come in with a few strings to rack up percent and leave us in the dust.

We are good at poking, we use Nair or something to force them into a panic situation, then we hit with something like dash attack or grab, we then try to follow up by reading.

Technically : Poke - DA/grab - Followup.

Bair is great for killing and it's a good move to go offstage with, but remember Falco has a bad recovery so it could go from us hitting a Sheik with Bair to getting gimped.
- - - - -
I understand you think he's great and all, but you have to look at the other characters with results. He's a fun character to play, he creates pressure with pokes.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

You may know how to use him on a basic level, but he has much more depth that requires using all his strengths, look at the threads on this board and you can see he has more options than you know.
To be serious, Smash 4 doesn't have many ways to punish strongly no matter what character you have.

 

[Jabzilla]

Falco is not a great character as he was. Sure, I even fully agree with some of your points. But some of them seem too harsh for him. I will go over some but again this is just my opinion.

I think his offstage game is great. I don't know how you have problems but the only problem that I could see is directly below the ledge when charging firebird. I always tend to save my jump since you don't freefall after phantasm now so you can mix it up with your recovery.

There is also no mention of uair. This is one of his best combo moves at the right percents. I tend to use it after the opponent is around 50%. It can also kill if sweetspotted at around 100%. You can also pressure them with it and make them airdodge then jump and punish with whatever you feel like. You can also use it as a fast fall short hop move.

Yes it is easy to get around fair but have you tried using your second jump and bairing them? Since most of the time they will be directly behind you but slightly above. I have had many people simply airdodge only to get hit by his strongest air move.

The only problems I have with Falco is with floaty characters. King Dedede is pretty hard to handle but that could be me and the not learning the matchup. Same with Rosalina.

To be honest I really think that Falco is just good in general but if you want to push him and make him equal to the "better characters". He needs a lot of more time dedicated to him. I do think its possible for him to get there. I have had matches against good Shieks/Diddys and won.

 

[Beta_Smash]

Whelp. I understand now.

 

[Onehandbackhand]

Sorry I haven't edited the thread yet but due to my job I keep it open on my barracks computer and continuously edit it when I get time off. I will have it up by Monday morning Japan time since I live here.

 

[Ffamran]

Sorry I haven't edited the thread yet but due to my job I keep it open on my barracks computer and continuously edit it when I get time off. I will have it up by Monday morning Japan time since I live here.

Hey, you don't have any obligations. Just find time and treat it like a little project or something. Don't kill yourself over it. We'll await your masterpiece.

Oh... AND FINALLY! Activity in the Falco section! Yippee! ... I need to find a hobby.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

Sorry I haven't edited the thread yet but due to my job I keep it open on my barracks computer and continuously edit it when I get time off. I will have it up by Monday morning Japan time since I live here.

Yeah what Ffamran said, don't make it into something that will make you burn out.
I understand, the Navy will get the work out of you, haha.

 

[Beta_Smash]

I'm just trolling guys, it's too early to decide who's good and who's going to be bad.

Falco is pretty good, he feels comfortable in neutral and it's fun to style with him.

 

[Zionaze]

I'm just trolling guys, it's too early to decide who's good and who's going to be bad.

Falco is pretty good, he feels comfortable in neutral and it's fun to style with him.

Falco to me feels like the most "basic" character in the game. Understanding Falco's core gameplay allows you to have a better understanding of what other characters are capable of.

 

[Beta_Smash]

He's like another Mario to me, he has a few things that work together than a player can figure out. Such as DThrow to Usmash, while Falco has combos like DThrow into Dash Attack.

His jab and rolls are also very good so he's a very comfortable character that makes players satisfied.

His jump is still super good and his recovery is super simple.

 

[Zionaze]

something about Firebird, more specifically the angling


and how he has the highest jump in the game makes me think
that Falco can teach you stage ledge mechanics and how deep your character can go.

 

[Ffamran]

He's like another Mario to me, he has a few things that work together than a player can figure out. Such as DThrow to Usmash, while Falco has combos like DThrow into Dash Attack.

His jab and rolls are also very good so he's a very comfortable character that makes players satisfied.

His jump is still super good and his recovery is super simple.

People have said that Falco is one of the more "honest" characters sort of like how people have said that Yoshi would be one of the more honest high tier characters. Falco can't really abuse or exploit anything from his moveset unlike say, Diddy with his Uair, Little Mac with his Dash Attack which catches inexperienced players really off guard, or Sheik being relatively safe with her entire moveset. This also applies to Captain Falcon, Marth, Lucina, and even Ganondorf who at low levels seems kind of cheap, but at competitive levels, he's more of a punish and read heavy character. Most of the cast is fair, but some aren't, especially at lower levels of play like Link, Little Mac, Villager, Diddy, or Sonic who can spam a lot of moves or have something that inexperienced players don't know how to deal with. Granted, most people do know how to deal with Little Mac because of that, but it's still an issue like if a kid plays online and gets destroyed by spammers. That's not fun.

SSB4 is one the most balanced SSB to date and that's what makes it enjoyable and appealing to a lot of people. You can pick anyone and just have fun whereas in past games there were large gaps between groups of characters.

something about Firebird, more specifically the


and how he has the highest jump in the game makes me think
that Falco can teach you stage ledge mechanics and how deep your character can go.

I'd add (Dark) Pit too, except Pit is much more beginner friendly in my opinion and introduces a lot of gameplay mechanics like tippers, meteors, super armor, repeating and Gentleman jabs, multiple jumps, reflecting, and projectiles. Kirby, Jigglypuff, and Meta Knight are more advanced when it comes to going in deep.

Falco and Marth are fundamentalists. Mastering timing, spacing, going off-stage, punishing, poking/footsies, etc. makes them deadly.

 

[Zionaze]

coincidence or not i main both Dark/Pit and Falco :V

 

[SLiP.]

Whoa, there's other people in the Navy that play as Falco? That's awesome.
I'm stationed in Yokosuka, we have to fight sometime.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

Oh what? I swear everyone's in Yokosuka but me haha

 

[Onehandbackhand]

Whoa, there's other people in the Navy that play as Falco? That's awesome.
I'm stationed in Yokosuka, we have to fight sometime.

lolwut. Message me on here. Thats where I am lol

 

[BlueBirdE]

Since were in depth on this page i feel falco has some horrible matchups and some godlike matchups, specifically zoning characters (rob, robin, megaman, etc.) reflector has a big impact if used correctly. I haven't seen any falcos use up throw upair around percents that kill, its like melee fox. Doesn't work on every character but zoners and some fast fallers are sitting ducks to it. Going to a tournament on the 31st, I plan to use falco if i havet to face some of these characters.

 

[Zionaze]

i recently went to a tournament and noticed A LOT of Falco mains. the bird is growing and people are noticing!

 

[NotAnAdmin]

Since were in depth on this page i feel falco has some horrible matchups and some godlike matchups, specifically zoning characters (rob, robin, megaman, etc.) reflector has a big impact if used correctly. I haven't seen any falcos use up throw upair around percents that kill, its like melee fox. Doesn't work on every character but zoners and some fast fallers are sitting ducks to it. Going to a tournament on the 31st, I plan to use falco if i havet to face some of these characters.

I agree, but there are ways around the barrage of projectiles.
Still though, Falco just can't juggle them, and in a 1v1 match-up it shows, Falco has no way to "stop" a good Megaman or Robin, now with all those new techs with the circle blade and it's easy followups make it too simple. On Battlefield it's a whole new MU though.
I feel like ROB is a little bit easier to handle personally I prefer the air, he's limited to his top and laser only, and are both very predictable in the neutral game.
His top can be reflected on the ground to be picked up and really doesn't seem like that big of a deal

 

[Zionaze]

I agree, but there are ways around the barrage of projectiles.
Still though, Falco just can't juggle them, and in a 1v1 match-up it shows, Falco has no way to "stop" a good Megaman or Robin, now with all those new techs with the circle blade and it's easy followups make it too simple. On Battlefield it's a whole new MU though.
I feel like ROB is a little bit easier to handle personally I prefer the air, he's limited to his top and laser only, and are both very predictable in the neutral game.
His top can be reflected on the ground to be picked up and really doesn't seem like that big of a deal

lets talk about and how we can reflect all of his smash attacks

 

[BlueBirdE]

I agree, but there are ways around the barrage of projectiles.
Still though, Falco just can't juggle them, and in a 1v1 match-up it shows, Falco has no way to "stop" a good Megaman or Robin, now with all those new techs with the circle blade and it's easy followups make it too simple. On Battlefield it's a whole new MU though.
I feel like ROB is a little bit easier to handle personally I prefer the air, he's limited to his top and laser only, and are both very predictable in the neutral game.
His top can be reflected on the ground to be picked up and really doesn't seem like that big of a deal

I agree the reflector is not an automatic win a megaman can use a counter strategy to it, then it becomes me countering there counter. I'm interested to see how this ends up because right now early on id say falco has the advantage from my personal experience. The player does make the difference. As far as juggles are you talking about air pressure or combos? Besides up throw up air back air combos falco wont be able to rely on great followups. Up close is whats scary falcos boxing game is superior imo but he can take damage quick. I always find myself keeping themout with sh side bs, sh airdodge then lag cancel it to a jab or tilt, full hops and spaces nairs, fairs. When theyre at the kill grab percent then I try to sneak in the grab.

 

[Ffamran]

If you all want, we could start match up discussions. Either we continue @Legend Vermillion's thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/ssb4-falco-matchup-thread-main-post.370767/.

Or, any one of you could start a new thread on a different character. So far, we only have threads on Mega Man and Dr Mario/Mario. If you want to continue those, then go ahead or if you want to just continue with the main post, then go ahead.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

I agree the reflector is not an automatic win a megaman can use a counter strategy to it, then it becomes me countering there counter. I'm interested to see how this ends up because right now early on id say falco has the advantage from my personal experience. The player does make the difference. As far as juggles are you talking about air pressure or combos? Besides up throw up air back air combos falco wont be able to rely on great followups. Up close is whats scary falcos boxing game is superior imo but he can take damage quick. I always find myself keeping themout with sh side bs, sh airdodge then lag cancel it to a jab or tilt, full hops and spaces nairs, fairs. When theyre at the kill grab percent then I try to sneak in the grab.

By "juggle" I meant deal with projectiles.
I learned the hard way by playing For Glory against a couple good Megamen. Falco has a couple options, but he's too slow to deal with a match-up with Megaman that's moveset is about 80% projectiles on a stage with no platforms. Reflecting leaves you with too many frames of lag, it's not viable unless you are at two ends of the stage, or full hopping with it, which seems pointless.
Full Hop Fair works pretty well, but connecting the hitbox for percent is a whole different story.

We should continue this on the old thread, before we go all end up getting too into it.

 

[Ffamran]

By "juggle" I meant deal with projectiles.
I learned the hard way by playing For Glory against a couple good Megamen. Falco has a couple options, but he's too slow to deal with a match-up with Megaman that's moveset is about 80% projectiles on a stage with no platforms. Reflecting leaves you with too many frames of lag, it's not viable unless you are at two ends of the stage, or full hopping with it, which seems pointless.
Full Hop Fair works pretty well, but connecting the hitbox for percent is a whole different story.

We should continue this on the old thread, before we go all end up getting too into it.

Anyone want to ask the Mega Man mains for input too? All of you are welcome to do so and I think they would be happy to discuss a Falco and Mega Man matchup. Just redirect them to the Mega Man matchup thread. Unless you want me to do it, then just tell me.

Edit: They're currently on a Sonic MU discussion.

 

[Zionaze]

i haven't had any real "problems" with megaman but the retreating reflector is really effective

 

[Ffamran]

i haven't had any real "problems" with megaman but the retreating reflector is really effective

Still, we could still talk about it and talk about the MU with the Mega Man players.

 

[Onehandbackhand]

Still, we could still talk about it and talk about the MU with the Mega Man players.

Thank you so much for being I think the only mod that supports Falco. Also it's official. I will have it up Saturday afternoon Japan time