An idea for wavedashing in Ultimate

[Necro'lic]

Just getting this out there. Not sure anyone will see it, but it's stuck in my head, and unlike reddit, this place seems much better for discussions like these.

So I think a way to make Ultimate a great game is to give players options, however, I also want balanced mechanics and choices, and I think wavedashing is one of those things that can give it, even with the inclusion of the new run canceling mechanics. Now note that I'm not a competitive player, but I do like to put apart design in games, cause I want to become a game designer... obviously, and if I were designing Smash Ultimate, I personally would have a wavedash do something like this. Let me preface this by saying that even though I advocate for wavedashing, I'd be totally fine if they designed another, easier to understand mechanic or button combo that did the same sorts of things. The last thing I want is gratuitous mechanical difficulty, but I do want options for the player. So this is what I would do.

Wavedashing Changes:

• Make a button "macro" of jump+dodge buttons that can do a low to the ground airdodge. This will automatically wavedash if you airdodge diagonally downward.
• Have special wavedashing animations for all characters and a special visual effect.
• Include a tutorial specifically for wavedashing (and a good tutorial in general honestly).

These three changes are centered around both casuals and spectators. The first makes the maneuver accessible and easy to understand for the average player, and the third allows for them to know how to use it via tutorials. The second gives wavedashing a distinct look, making it easier to follow to the untrained eye, and for commentators.

Wavedashing Changes (cont):

• All characters have a specific "wavedash traction" value separate from their ground traction, meaning when they wavedash, they will all decelerate at a set rate and a set distance.
• Wavedash lag is now closer to Melee's, around 10-11 frames, for all characters.
• Wavedash now stales along with dodges.
  • Rolls overall should go the same distance as wavedashes minimum.

These three changes are balance related. The first and second remove any notion of some characters getting godlike wavedashes, while others get useless ones due to ground traction. This doesn't remove its purpose, just spreads the love for all characters.

The third both makes sure it isn't spammed and has a downside that is skill-independent, and that's resource management of a kind. To use wavedash means to potentially stale out your rolls, spotdodges, and airdodges, lowering your defensive capability for offensive capability that it provides. The footnote of the third change is a sort of balancing between rolls and wavedashes, so they go the same distance or higher than wavedash, giving yet another incentive to not just wavedash for everything.

Wavedashing Changes (cont):

• When wavelanding on a platform, holding the dodge button will allow for a potential ledge drop, should the waveland slide toward the edge of a platform.
  • Not holding the dodge button will make the character stop at the edge as it does currently in Ultimate.
  • Doing attacks during the wavedash at all will disallow ledge dropping.

This last change involves an easy form of ledge cancelling, where you simply slide off with the waveland and it will do it. The wavedash is uniform, meaning this option is open for all characters, making it very cool to have. As an added bonus, you have the ability to choose whether to do it or not without attacking by not holding the dodge button, giving it some extra mindgame potential, as well as more control over it. The one penalty that needs to be said is that it cannot cancel attacks that are being done during the slide, for what should be obvious reasons.


Well these are my ideas for this mechanic. Again, if the Ultimate devs can find a way to have wavedashing's missing purposes that aren't covered by run cancelling be realized in some other way, I'd be fine. But if they can't, then this is how I would do wavedashing. Hopefully this is appropriate for this forum.

 

[Douchey McDoucheface]

That actually sounds like a good idea. Have the regular dodge be a defensive option for evasive action, and the wavedash be a high-risk high-reward option for quick attacks. How about some extra knockback for the added momentum during a wavedash attack?

 

[Necro'lic]

That actually sounds like a good idea. Have the regular dodge be a defensive option for evasive action, and the wavedash be a high-risk high-reward option for quick attacks. How about some extra knockback for the added momentum during a wavedash attack?

First off, thank you. :D

Second, I think that idea would be too much. All it would do is turn wavedashing into a killing assist rather than the microspacing offensive tool it should be. And while it makes sense, it also doesn't, since knockback on moves is not momentum based to begin with, so making it so for wavedashing specifically is strange.

 

[Douchey McDoucheface]

Okay, I do agree with you on the knockback thing. It would, among other things, overcomplicate combos, but I still feel that there should be something more to wavedashing in this game to differentiate it more from the regular dodge, something which encourages offensive play (like the fact that to powershield you now have to lower the shield instead of raising it).

 

[Quillion]

Necro'lic : I definitely agree with the staling and the "unique distance" for each wavedash.

However, I don't think it should be a macro for an originally emergent feature, but its own actual input. It should be its own fully-developed mechanic with its own animation and terms.

Think about it: instead of having two buttons for shielding, let's say that by default L is used to wavedash and R is used to shield. Of course, these inputs can be customized to the content of each player.

The wavedash can still be variable length; depending on how the stick is angled into the ground, it would still move a certain distance corresponding to the position of the stick.

Oh, and for extra fun, each character would gain an Air Dash if they use the wavedash button in the air. I'd say every character should have only one Air Dash per jump (multi-jump characters would only have it on the first two jumps, ground then air). This way, Bayonetta's greatest advantage wouldn't be unique to her anymore!

 

[Necro'lic]

Necro'lic : I definitely agree with the staling and the "unique distance" for each wavedash.

However, I don't think it should be a macro for an originally emergent feature, but its own actual input. It should be its own fully-developed mechanic with its own animation and terms.

While I do like the idea of having its own button, I honestly am in favor of the emergent properties here, if only for tying in the relationship between the other dodges as a resource management deal.

The wavedash can still be variable length; depending on how the stick is angled into the ground, it would still move a certain distance corresponding to the position of the stick.

I don't really think that would be needed, since you could just allow the player to remove the slide immediately if they inputted a walk or dash, but not during an attack.

Oh, and for extra fun, each character would gain an Air Dash if they use the wavedash button in the air. I'd say every character should have only one Air Dash per jump (multi-jump characters would only have it on the first two jumps, ground then air). This way, Bayonetta's greatest advantage wouldn't be unique to her anymore!

What does air dash do exactly? Sorry, I stopped playing Smash 4 around the time between Corrin and Bayonetta were added.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

https://smashboards.com/threads/the-future-of-wave-dashing-wave-landing.455413/ Please use the current Wavedash topic.