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Amateur needs some help

ajc3388

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
11
hey,
I've played ssbm for a while, but ony recently started learning the advanced concepts such as L canceling, wavedashing etc. Also, I want to make my main mewtwo. Here are some problems I have.

There are guys I play (Marth/Samus) that I can beat fairly regularly using Sheik, my old main. But I switch over to mewtwo and Im getting 2 or 3 stocked by them constantly. Approaching seems harder, keeping the pressure on is harder. I'm not really sure how to go about this. I try to wavedash -> d-tilt, but i'm not fast enough to follow up with another wave dash. I can't wavedash consistently enough to depend on it to dodge attacks and such.

Any help appreciated. thanks!
 

Tongji

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
418
Location
Green Bay Wisconsin
Lots of vague questions. To help you better next time I would try and be more specific. ;) Ok well Ill try and help you as best I can.

Lets start with the basics.

Mewtwo is not going to be a fun main. Yes I said it not fun, if you don't liek to work your butt off for every stock and generally accept that you will always be at a greater disadvantage to everyone you play. Your going to loose alot. So get used to it. Don't get mad tho. You just need to keep at it.

Ok now the advanced tecks.

M2 has the third best WD in the game. You need to capitalize on it. You NEED to have a PERFECT WD if you want to get good with m2. No exeptions. Your WD need's to be far reaching and you need to be able to do them on the fly, with no hisitation. Because you are just learning the WD your probably not going have it down pat just yet, however I would definatly practice your WD daily. WD is how M2 moves around the board. If you want to keep up with the faster characters ie. Fox, sheik ext. Your going to need to get good at it.

Now that you get the WD your going to need to learn how to L-cancle. This teck is also extreamly important because it speeds up your game tremendusly. So I would also try practicing this on a daily basis.

Ok now onto a quick m2 guide.

M2 is a defensive character and really doesn't have any 'solid approaches'
Your approaches are as follows.
WD D-tilt
WD F-tilit
WD Grab******Extreamly usefull******
Shuffled nair (however this is definatly situational)

As you can see your definatly limited in your approaches. that is why M2 is generally played as a defensive character. Because of this you definatly need to get good at shield grabbing. Grabs are the core of m2's game. Withought the grabs he is nothing. So you always need to try ad find a way to utilize his grabs. because that is how your going to ba able to rack up % and KO. When Using Grabs your probably only going to be using three, they are
Uthrow
Dthrow
Bthrow
Fthrow: is most useless. However sometimes can be used to great effect in teams (we will get to that later)

Uthrow: Up throw is a great combo starter on Fast fallers (Fox Falco ext) at low percents. This grab should always be used when trying to KO a lighter opponent. Ie. Samus dies on Final destination at 120% the geral rule of thumb is Back throw Fast Fallers for the Ko and U throw lighter opponents for the Ko.

Dthrow: This grab is your bread and butter. D-throw with D-tilts work great on many opponents and also this is how your probably going to be racking up some good % with teck chasing. teck chasing out of the D-throw takes practice however with time you will get the hang of it. To teck chase effeciantly your definatly going to need to be able to use WD with D-tilt and F-tilt and WD grab.

Bthrow: Back throw is a nice grab for getting someone off of the board and should be used to KO Fast fallers and heavier opponents Definatly a great KO grab.

F-throw: toatly and utterly pointless 99% of the time. You cannot combo out of this grab and it is also the weakest. it's only use in single player is if you are somehow facing a ledge (ie. The fin of great fox on corneria) You can Fthrow your opponent into the wall and then all of the baby shadowballs will hit them and explode causing alot of damage. howver be warned that if your opponent hit's the wall before the shadowballs they can teck. Fthrow is most usefull in team battles becasue you can 'suck' the enemy opponent into your malestorm of shadowballs and trap both of the opposing team members.

Ok now onto the more in depth oproaches.

Like I said earlier M2 doesn't really have any solid approches. However with a good Wd he defiatly can be a thret. You need to look at your spacing carefully becasue you can definatly travel quite a way with a good WD f-tilt or WD D-tilt. Sometimes the distance can suprize your opponent so use it to your advantage. With the d-tilts you can try and chain the into more D-tilts however I wouldn't suggest useing more than two, possibly three. If you use more than that your opponent can easily DI away from you. Insted what I normally do is Grab them or use F-tilt to get them off the the platform if the oppertunity presents itself. This is one of m2's better approaches.

WD Grab. Once again M2's game is all about grabbing. The better you can WD the more likely you will have a chance at getting in a grab from long distance. This is a great approach and need's to be mastered along with Shield Grabbing. WD Grab is a great way to sneak in when your opponent is sufferning from LAG. Howver don't spam this approach because it can be easily punished.

The next approach is going to be WD F-tilt. This doesn't really have any comboing chances if you hit with this becasue it will most likly send your opponent flying. This is a usefull way to get your enemy off of the stage.

Now for arials.
Fair
Nair
Uair
Bair

Fair: This is a great move. The only problem is it's range is really short. So don't try approaching with it. It's best used in conjunction with D-tilt. ie. Dtilt to DjC Fair. It's also a great way to rack up damage on fast fallers. ie. when they are at low % 0-36 you can uthrow to fair for a nice little combo. I would try and only use fair when your opponent is 'tumbling' use it in combos. However don't try and approach with this move. this move is going to take alot of practice to master. If the situation presents itself you can use fair if you jump out of your shield for a nice little suprize. however please note that this teck is situational at best.

Nair: Nair is M2's solid air move. However this move as well has some downsides. It can be used to approach with, however make sure that you are carfull when you decide to use this move. Because it has low range and priority. However if you can use it properly this air move is a really great tool for M2 for racking up some nice percents.

Uair: Is a good move for edge guarding. You can 'carry' your opponent of the edge with is move. Don't try approaching with is move becasue it has no range.

Bair: This move is definatly tricky at first becasue the hit box is so wierd. Bair is a great edge guard and it's going to take practice to use it effectivly. usaually your only going to be using Bair for an edge guard. Don't depend on this air move in the heat of battle. It will get you no where.

Overall m2 isn't really that strong in the air. When playing M2 your going to want to stay on the ground.

Ok now that you kind of know the basics I would now try the following:
1. Read the M2 guide
2. Watch M2 vids in the moive database
3. Practice.


Now for your friend. he is playing Marth and Samus. Two of M2's worst nightmares. Here's why.

Marth: He out ranges and out prioritizes you in everything. So your at a huge disadvantage. Fsmash is a killer. Watch out for that. Also your going to have to know Marths sword distance extreamly well. Your going to have to Wave dance just in and out of his range. However be warned that the tip of marths sword causes a huge amount of damage and knockback. If you make a mistake your going to pay for it. i don't know how good your friend is, however I will tell you this. never take to the air. marths Fair is too good. M2 has nothing to stop it. Stick to the ground. Don't try and go airbore against marth unless it's absolutly nessesary or if you have him in a combo. So your best bet is going to be wave shielding and your going to have to try and make Marth screw up his spacing. In order to help you more im going to need to know how good your friend is with marth. Marths are extreamly situational and stratagies for playing a good marth are totally differn't than playing a noob marth. More info would be greatly appreciated.

Samus: Yet another of M2's worst match ups. Samus is difficult for M2 becasue you are forced to approach her. And M2 doesn't do well when he has to go on the offensive. If your friend likes to missle spam you can try a few things.
1. you can destroy the missles with M2's Fair. this teck isn't going to win you the match. the only thing that this can possibly do is hopefully make the samus realize that by missle spamming she is not getting anywhere fast.
2. try and rush her if the missles are just too much. howver this isn't always the best of ideas because like I said before M2 doesn't like it when he has to rush.

Samus isn't a Fast faller so combos are not the easiest thing. You just need to try and get as much damage you can get in with every opening. Be carefull of those missiles. You need to try at all cost to make her rush you. Although this is easier said than done. Try and KO samus with Uthrow because Samus has a great recovery, so Bthrow is kind of pointless.

Once again I don't know how good your friends samus is, so I cannot really help you that much. It would be great to have some more information.

Well More information on your friends abilities would have allowed me to explathe matchups in greater detail. If you can give me something more to work with I could give you some more indepth strats.

All in All it sounds like you just need to get the hang of M2. You need to practice your WD, Lcancle Fast Falls DjC and what not. Try and just understand m2's movement and work ou your character control.

Hope this helps, also please feel free to PM me if you need more help. Also next time before posting please look around the boards you could have found all of your answers there ;)
 

dguy6789

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 25, 2006
Messages
1,585
Location
San Antonio, TX
Agreed. Get all of the information you can on Mewtwo that is already documented first. Read the guides, watch all the videos. That will give you a general idea as to how to do it.

Just asking how to play Mewtwo in general is far too complex a topic to answer in just a couple minutes of typing. After you are done reviewing all of the information recommended above, then you should ask the more specific questions.
 

JesiahTEG

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
4,126
Location
Rochester, NY
wow tongji good advice. Its cool that you help other ppl out like that. If i can just say one thing...

AJC you said it's harder to approach with mew2 than it is with sheik. I just wanna say, even though this has been emphased a lot...its going to be very...very...very...extremely difficult to approach a marth with mew2. Against a good marth...I would actually say almost impossible. But dont let that get you down, like everyone has said...playing mew2 is going to be tough, so just keep at it.
 

Tongji

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
418
Location
Green Bay Wisconsin
You don't approach marth. Your only option is going to be trying to make him wiff and then go in for a hit. You can "fake" approach to try and get him to miss a tipper other than that, when playing marth you have to wait for him to make a mistake.
 

JesiahTEG

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
4,126
Location
Rochester, NY
Right tongji, but even if Marth does miss a tipper, they should still be able to swat mew2 away with a jab or an ftilt...unless they missed an fsmash, but good marth's dont go around fsmashing things. I played my friend's mew2 yesterday, and I just swatted him away everytime he came close. His mew2 isn't that good, but overall he's a much better player than I am. Everytime mew2 gets close, all Marth needs to do is shffl a fair. If the miss, like the mew2 intended, if the fair is shffld marth should be able to swat mew2 away as he's coming in from the whiffed fair. Anyways, I think this is correct. It's just so hard for mew2.
 

Tongji

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
418
Location
Green Bay Wisconsin
Well Fair shouldn't give m2 any problems if he is in shield. You can just wave shield ;)
Marth's are just so person specific. A strat that would work on one marth isn't going to work on another, partly because of marths huge and slow learing curve everyone you play is going to be at a differn't level.

@Jesiah TEG: If you really want to take down your friends m2, just dash dance to grab to F-smash :) M2 hate's getting grabbed. Also becasue you are marth you can just sit and wait for him to come to you.
 

ajc3388

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
11
sorry if my previous post was too vague. I'll try to be more exact. On the threads everyone says that Samus, Marth, Falco... etc are bad match ups. but not coincidently most of these characters are the most popular. A good match up against say... pichu isn't going to do me any good. I dont play in tournaments but amongst the college dorms the favorites are those that are really powerful.

More specifica questions:
If i'm suppose to do ground approaches only, wouldn't that make me predictable to a certain degree? Also, is teleporting in a good idea? or to follow up with a chase? And, what are follow ups to a down throw?
 

quak

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
2,265
Location
Bay Area, Cali
*cough* OMG LOOK AT MY GUIDE, THERE'S A WHOLE SECTION ON IT! *cough*

that's like the whole reason i created it, so that way "amateurs" could get alotta info out of it, and not ask questions that i already coverd. HASSEL FREE!

and yeah, videos are faster, we all know that

do both, win twice
 

JesiahTEG

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
4,126
Location
Rochester, NY
Well Fair shouldn't give m2 any problems if he is in shield. You can just wave shield ;)
Marth's are just so person specific. A strat that would work on one marth isn't going to work on another, partly because of marths huge and slow learing curve everyone you play is going to be at a differn't level.

@Jesiah TEG: If you really want to take down your friends m2, just dash dance to grab to F-smash :) M2 hate's getting grabbed. Also becasue you are marth you can just sit and wait for him to come to you.
thats what im saying...wait for mew2 to come close and shffl a fair. mew2 cant get close. I need to get ***** by taj's mew2. I need the experience of losing to a mew2. I just can't picture it. Or you tongji. You seem pretty good, I bet your M2 could take my Marth.
 

Tongji

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
418
Location
Green Bay Wisconsin
-.-' your words are too kind Jesiah TEG
@ajc: Like I said before you don't really need to worry about approaches becasue like I said before your not going to be approaching with m2. As far as M2 matchups. M2 has a disadvantage against everyone. However that doesn't mean that you cannot win. M2 has some nice combos on FF and you can definatly take advantage of that.

As far as worst matchups here is my oppinion
1. Fox/Falco
2.Falcon
3.Jiggs
4.Samus

Now don't get me wrong some of the other high tiers are also difficult matches, but those three in my oppion are the hardest.
Fox: Uthrow to Uair kills at 72% on FD
Falco: Ok If falco really wanted to they could SHL spam and you could never ever get to them. Against a good fox you should never win ever. however I have to this day not seen a falco that is a MASSIVE camper so IMO flaco is a little easier. The only thing that Falco has going for him is his lasers. His uair is not nearly as deadly as fox's so that is good for you.
Overall the Falco matchup is much better than the Fox. Howver if the Falco wants to be a tramp and laser spam your going to have a tough time getting in close

Falcon: The only falcon thqat I play here in wisconsin is Tapion. He is the number one player here in wisconsin, and to say the least he destroyes me. A good falcon will try and keep you off balance with his amazing speed. To say the least against a good falcon your going to have a hard time getting your feet underneath you so to speak.

Jiggs: A GOOD jiggs will take away your grab game, and eaisly out prioritizes your air game. It's hopeless to try and use tilts because you will be out prioritized.
Samus: Missle spam, make m2 rush

IMO that is the hardest matchups. If you have a good M2 you can take down the high tiers trust me ;) Like I said earlier your oing to need to practice alot. As far as using tele to approach, it is possible. However use it sparingly because it is ohh so slow. :( However it sometimes can be a nice suprize once and awhile.

As far as teck chasing your going to want to WD to D-tilit. When you hit them with the D-tilit you can do many things depending on the situation.
1. Fair
2. Grab
3. Ftilt
4. Utilt

Some times when teck chasing your going to need to use your tele. Using the tele is probably only going to be used if the teck your D-throw and roll away from you. ;) Some characters like (gannon) are really really easy to teck chase and you can easily keep them in the D-throw to Dtilt combo's lolz

Your teck chasing skills will come with experience and practice. So don't get discuraged if your missing them once and awhile.

If you would like I could write up some player specific strats if you could tell me the way your opponents play.
 

JesiahTEG

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
4,126
Location
Rochester, NY
Hmm...I never imagined Jiggs vs mew2. That seems so annoying for mew2, But about Marth...

Wouldnt Marth be harder than captain falcon due to range? I just find it impossible for a mew2 to approach a good marth, due to Marth's range. I mean, how are you supposed to approach a defensive Marth that just shffl's fairs? i've never played mew2 against falcon though, so I wouldnt know.
 

Tongji

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
418
Location
Green Bay Wisconsin
M2 v falcon is really really hard. He is just ohh so fast and can throw you too knee combos at really low percents. You don't have a chance.

As for marths shadowballs can work to throw off thier spacings and they are not that fast. You can easily shield thier fairs and if thier spacing is off SG. Fair doesn't give alot of shield lag so you can easily wave shield in. When fighting a marth all you need to try and do is make them screw up thier spacing. And for those defensive marths you can throw shadow balls to make them rush you.

Like I said before each marth your going to play agianst is totally going to be a differn't game with differn't strats.
 

ajc3388

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
11
so i'm supposed to just wait til they come to me? here we have quite the amount of campers. so on FD falco's, sheiks, and samus's eat me alive.

Heres the playstyle/level of people i'm playing.
Everyone here still rolls a lot. The samus can bomb jump really well, and the marth can read my throws (cause I throw a lot as mewtwo). I'll go in for a throw and he'll sdestep/roll and i'll eat a c-stick fsmash. Most people here can wavedash but no continuously and only use it to edge hog (i'm trying to fix that in myself). Furthermore no one L-cancels, but they do fast fall.

Techniques I have trouble with:
DJC Fair or DJC in general. I get the concept and I can do it when in training mode, but when actually fighting, its harder for me to remember to input all that and I normally just try and shorthop fair. L-canceling Fair. the attack animation is so fast, that it doesnt really seem necessary to L-cancel, but I know I'm wrong here. When I do try and L-cancel, I can do it some of the time, but combined with fastfall, it's a lot harder to time for me. This may just come with practice.

Lastly, when I teleport I'm suppose to aim for the area just above the ground and fast fall down. When i start from the ground. should I DJC then teleport directly right/left to ensure that I dont either shoot too high, or land on the ground? Or do I just practice and try and teleport from the ground to a spot directly above the ground?
 

Tongji

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
418
Location
Green Bay Wisconsin
Well yes in a sense wait for them to come to you. (most of the high tiers ie fox falco shiek Falcon) are extreamly agressive and that is how they are played. Howver The people that you play definatly do play more defensive characters. Marth once agian is player by player. I have seen really defensive marths and really agressive ones. (however in your case it sounds like that latter) :)

Ok well from what your telling me you need to work on your advenced tecks. M2 is nothing withought them. WD is ohh so extreamly important, because that is the only way your going to be able to keep up with the higher tier characters and actually do something when you see an opening. So once again it's pretty much point less for me to be telling you strats that you cannot do (yet) You need to get your tec abbilites down pat first.

The only way your going to ba able to take down marth and Samus is with a great WD. Thats it. So that should be the first thig you should try and master. DjC will also come with time, and in reality it isn't really that usefull, uless your jumping out of your shield. Against skilled opponents you will never be able to get that close. DjC fair is only good for comboing or a move that is performed in a combo. You might get a luck hit off once and awhile howver it's nothing to count on. Also trust me fair is still slow withought the L-cancle so your right in saying that you need to learn it. :)

As for the rolling marth, ill give you a few alternites that you can try to use to stop him.
1. WD backward to d-tilit or grab whatever you want
2. Turn around shield and then rush in with the rusulting lag.
Rolling is really slow. You should be able to see it coming and be able to react to it. Also lets not forget that Marth's Fsmash isn't really that fast. You will get faster with m2 the more you play and become used to him. Becasue you just started playing with him you need to work on your character control first and formost.

With the spot doges, you just need to be a little more sneaky. If he is just stanging there I woudn't suggest going in for a grab, becasue that is a good sign he is trying to counter you. Insted I would try a dtilt. This move is fast enought to recover if in fact he side steps or rolles. a WD grab isn't going to be your best approach (yet) From what your telling me you still don't have your WD down. I have a question for you, do you Dash grab when you are attacking him? Because if you are that is not good. WD grab is really long ranged and fast. (however the problem is you need to have a GREAT WD) If you are attacking with Dash grabs I would suggest that you stop. The grab animation and lag is HUGE. It definatly is easy to see coming and is easy to punish.

I cannot stress to you how important a LONG, CONSISTANT, NO HESITATION WD is :) Practice Practice Practice!!!! M2 WD grab range is HUGE. (however you will not exploit this unless you can WD)

On to the tele's

There are two ways to do a quick horizontal tele.

1. SH and as fast as you can tele sideways.
When you Short Hop the only thing that you should be worried about is getting your fingers over to UpB ASAP when you hit up B slide the controller stick right or left and you should be fine. :) Once again practice makes perfect
2. Tele from the ground exept angle the tele just slight up (this is going to take some practice) If you do it right you should end up just above the stage, FF and there you go.

well Hope I helped a bit. To be able to have me really help you your going to need to be able to WD. it's one of the cores of his game and you need to capitalize on a Perfect WD I don't know how I can stress this enough. Anyway good luck with your friends!
 

ajc3388

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
11
hey, i can WD now consistently, still can't L-cancel or fastfall everytime, what opportunities are opened up for me now that I can WD?

Been using it to try and WD in and out with d-tilt -> Fair. Sometimes to WD back, down B.
 

Tongji

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
418
Location
Green Bay Wisconsin
Good for you!! It seems that your learning really fast! However you can still try and improve your WD. When you wave dash try and hold your joystick as close to horizontal as possible. The close you get the farther you will go. :)

Ok now on to WD approaches

Marth: When your fighting Marth your whole game is going to revolve around Wave dancing in and out of marths range. You need to play a really tight game, and watch out for the tippers. Becuase if you make a mistake and get hit your going to pay for it. Your going to have to try and make them miss a high lag move. Ie. F-smash. If you don't feel confident enough to try and WD grab when going in on marth you can use WD d-tilt. D-tilt is a good option becasue you can reach a little farther with this approach and can also set up some nice combos. With this match up your going to have to play a waiting game. You cannot approach marth. (perhaps once and awhile if you get a lucky shadowball off But don't count on it)

If the marth likes to camp you can try and coax him to rush you with your shadowballs. Don't expect to do alot of damage just try and annoy him enough to make him come to you. Wave shielding is extreamly helpfull when fighting marth, becasue if you can screw up his spacing you will get an easy shield grab.

One of marths best way to deal with m2 is using chaingrabs to F-smash. You need to watch out for his chain grabs. Becasue they can be a really easy KO at low percents.

Samus: learning the WD is going to help you out a bit but this isn't going to make this match up any easier. Samus will almost always make you rush her. her projectiles are far supirior to your's Your only hope (and it's a really slim hope) is just destroying her missles with your Ftilt. this teck isn't going to win the match for you. What you are trying to accomplish with this idea is to try and show the samus player that she cannot possibly win by missle spamming and need's to camoe at you.

Now most samus players will approach you running behind a missle. If this situation happens you can try and wave shield backwards letting the missle hit your shield, while hopefulyl doging samus's attack and then you may have the possibility of a counter attack, or you could try and destroy the missle with your Ftilit and hope that you ahve enought time to engage samus before you get hit in the face. Teleport might also be usefull in some situations however I don't think that you could ever get a hit off. (probably best used as an escape method)

When fighting samus you need to be extreamly patient. samus is a hard character for m2 to 'combo' becuase of her weight. Dthrow is totally useless becasue samus will have the time to jump beore she hit's the ground. So teck chasing is out of the question. Your best bets are probably Dtilt to nair to rack up damage and either an Uthrow or a Dtilt to shadowclaw to KO.

Both of these matchups need some practice. They are both difficult, so don't get discuraged. Your best method is familiarizing yourself with the matches and your opponents. The better you know them and thier characters movesets the grateer your chances of winning.

Hope this helped a bit :) A video of you playing would definatly be helpful!
 

Tongji

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
418
Location
Green Bay Wisconsin
Well pika's u-smash like all smash attacks have some lag to it. Just wait for a botched one and then punish. If you think that pika is hard try playing a grabby fox. Uthrow to Uair and Usmash. that's it. It' s the bane for mewtwo. :(
 

ajc3388

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
11
hey when you guys go for a WD grab do you use Z or L + A? when i try it, i either:

1) end up WD shielding, or 2) end up WD into Z-shield.

Any tips on that?
 

quak

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
2,265
Location
Bay Area, Cali
i prefer, JC'ing with z, gives you a slight boost to reach out and grab ur opponents if they're slightly farther away
 

PDRK

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 4, 2007
Messages
19
Location
Vegas
Hmm...I never imagined Jiggs vs mew2. That seems so annoying for mew2, But about Marth...

Wouldnt Marth be harder than captain falcon due to range? I just find it impossible for a mew2 to approach a good marth, due to Marth's range. I mean, how are you supposed to approach a defensive Marth that just shffl's fairs? i've never played mew2 against falcon though, so I wouldnt know.
I would say CFalcon would be a tough one for mewtwo because of their combo's are hard to DI and they lag for mewtwo, so they are tough to get out of especially at a low percentage. Marth on the other hand, I would spam them with shadow ball most of the time especially since their sword is very long reach. I try not to get too close to neither of them until the time is right. It's good to predict a Cfalcon if your using a mewtwo so you have to familiarize your falcons lol. I would play a keep away game for marths and figure them out while you're at a distance from them.
 

ajc3388

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
11
I dont wave dash with L, i wave dash with R (maybe thats weird?) also, against marth and samus wave dashing isnt working so well for me.

Marth:
i try to wavedash out of reach of the sword, and wavedash back in, but 1 of 2 things happen.
1) I dont wavedash out far enough and sweet spot myself.
2) I wavedash out of reach, but by the time i wave dash back in to approach its slow enough to the point where he can roll away from me or just c-stick again.

Samus:
I can f tilt all the missiles (thanks for that tip), but he follows up missiles with a dash attack. so tilting the missile makes me eat a shoulder -_- On top of that, it's extremely hard to wavedash in and out when missiles are flying right at me. And, I can't really teleport to approach either because of the lag (even if I fast fall).

And a dash JC grab seems to work a lot better than WD grab. true?
 

quak

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
2,265
Location
Bay Area, Cali
well wd'ing should be ur approchal, you use both, wd to approch, then JC grab to grab

for me anyway
 

Tongji

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
418
Location
Green Bay Wisconsin
Well ajc WD with the right trigger is a bit weird i must say, (in the long run it's probably better for you to use L) although that is just my oppion. As for the WD. You should EASILY be able to WD out of marths range. (watch airos vids) Notice how far he can reach with his WD. That is what you are trying to perfect. If you don't know already, when you WD try and tilt your controller stick as close to horixontal as possible. This will extend your distance significantly. Basically to get a longer WD your just going to need to practice. Also your WD should be quick enough to get in. NOt to try and be mean or degrading but you just lerned WD so your probablly not going as fast as M2 can go. :) TO help you with your situation now tho, you could always WD d-tilt or Ftilt this will give you a bigger range and you can reach marth faster. Hopefully getting him before he Dsmashes you. :)

Against samus. Like I said before it's not going to be a fun match. Also like I said before when they shoot a missle and chase you you have a few options.
1. Tele away (however you are probably not going to be able to get a counter attack off)
2. Shield. Take the missle and the attack. Samus doesn't have the best grab in the game and you can definatly see one coming if they are a little ways away. Hopefully they will be over zeus and try and dash attack right into your shield which is going to be a really easy SG for you to score a hit on :)
3. Ftilt the Missle while WD backwards hopefully this will give you enough time to be able to Ftilt or Dtilt again. (however this is situation specific) Your just giong to have to decide on your own what is the best teck.

From what you have told me it doesn't sound like the samus your playing has alot of tech skill so this should make it a little easier for you.

anyway good luck! and keep practicing:)
 

ajc3388

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
11
well the samus i'm playing isnt specifically "good" at smash, but he is what I would consider an exceptional gamer in general. The difference I think, is that being good as smash means having all the technical stuff down, WD, SHUFFLing etc. being good at games in general is reading your opponents, when to throw out which hit etc.

So here are more follow up questions:
1) tele'ing away (im supposing you mean toward him? because you cant possibly mean up in the air -_-) i find, is perfect for -samus-. If he fires 2 missiles, spacing it properly means eating a missile no matter where you teleport (unless its in the air, and that seems to just make you vulnerable).

2) when do i use a WD grab vs a JC grab? I find JC grab to be much easier to use, and a much better follow up to a d-throw chain.
 

Tongji

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
418
Location
Green Bay Wisconsin
Do whatever grab you want. Each has it's own uses in differn't situations. As for the tele Im talking about if they shoot a missle and then chase behind it. You can tele behind them. Don't use the tele to approach when they are missle spamming. Sorry that I didn't clarify this eariler :(
 

DelxDoom

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
1,555
wd grab is for mewtwo mainly because his wd is so long and fast. If you have great wd control go ahead and wd grab.
jc grab is easier and works just as well in some situations but sometimes is hindered by length. hopefully you can distinguish when you wd grab instead of jc grab.
 
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