am i the only one?

[Pure Royalty]

i am marth main in melee, and have since i started getting somewhat competitive. my play style is focused around melee marth, all my tech skill is with marth and im working on it with falcon.
ive been playing project m for awhile now. (started when 2.0 came out) and since then i still feel that marth is not like melee marth. to me he is just really floaty. when i play marth my movement is much slower and i cant do the same stuff in pm that i can in melee. thats why zss is my pm main. i feel her speed and weight resembles melee marth more than pm marth. whenever i say this people just tell me there is no difference in marth from melee to pm. does anyone else think that marth is just slower and more floaty in pm? or am i the only one who thinks this?

 

[Deleted member]

you're probably not the only one but he feels fine to me

you should come play me in erie

 

[Kuya the Red]

I've experienced the same. It's not that PM marth is floatier, its just that his short hop is a little longer than in melee so SH double Fair doesnt work all that great. I've found a way around this. If you start the short hop from a sheild or crouching position, then marth will shorten his SH. Letting us players get that double Fair action as well as other SH aerials.

in addition to this marth in PM has a different fair than melee marth. Which is not a good thing. You have to tipper the Fair if you want to send your opponent in an upward direction so that Ken combo can work, but if you dont tipper the fairs then the opponent gets sent too far horizontally. I found SHFFLing dairs on stage to be a little more effective than ken comboing.

also getting a tipper with marth in PM is much harder than in melee. Whether its for an F-smash or Uair, Pm is more strict with tippers. puts marth in an uneasy position within the character roster since every other character has very good recoveries.


TL;DR:

PM Marth isnt floatier, crouch and SH fair should do it. Ken combos aren't as common, Tippers are harder to get. Edge gaurd is not easy for a marth.

 

[shairn]

SH is literally like one frame longer at most. Shouldn't that make SH dfair easier? I'm not sure how it makes it any worse.

 

[InfinityCollision]

I've not had any problems with double fairs, nor have I had any unusual issues with tippers after getting used to the different model size. His movement is ever-so-slightly different as a result of the slight differences in physics, but that's it.

 

[VashEXE]

I haven't had any issues with pm Marth, but I think people come into PM expecting an exact melee clone and it's definitely not. That being said, Marth and everybody in this game feels a bit different from melee because this isn't melee. Also, my tech skill in this game is WAY better than in melee, so I kind of prefer my PM Marth anyways haha.

Also, about Marth having issues ledge guarding. It's not so much an issue with Marth as it is an issue with everybody's recoveries being safe as hell now. This definitely hurts Marth, but it seems to be a problem with alot of characters.

 

[Kuya the Red]

SH is literally like one frame longer at most. Shouldn't that make SH dfair easier? I'm not sure how it makes it any worse.

I feel like PM marth SH is longer (jumps higher) than in melee, so when you double fair you can miss the first fair against someone like kirby or olimar. makes you have to SHFFL it which takes slightly longer because you have to pause when you reach the peak of the SH and then fast fall and L cancel. whereas in melee theres no pause because the peak of the SH is already optimum height.

 

[Element of Smash]

SH is BARELY longer. And a sour spot fair send opponents horizontally in Melee, too. The knockback formula in PM is a bit different, so yeah, they go further. But if you're a Marth main, spacing for tippers should be your thing. Besides, in PM, like every throw can potentially lead to a tipper dair if you catch them DIing wrong.

I think maybe you just need to acclimate to the PM environment with Marth. Pretty much everything still works, and then some.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Short hops are 1 frame longer because gravity applies on the 2nd frame in PM. The rest of it is probably you.

 

[tauKhan]

Short hops are 1 frame longer because gravity applies on the 2nd frame in PM. The rest of it is probably you.

Gravity is frame 2 in melee too, unless you do a move on frame 1. That's why jump height reduced aerials exist in melee. I think the short hop is longer because momentum delay means you aren't moving on the 1st aerial frame.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

I'm pretty sure a PMBR member said this, but it seems you are right.
As a question, the extra one frame is spent at the very at the beginning of the jump, is that correct?

 

[tauKhan]

Yeah, I believe that you have 1 extra aerial frame at the beginning where you are on the ground level. You should test that in tas though.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Tough one to tell, especially because I have no access to TAS in Melee. There is a small amount of vertical movement between the first and second airbourne frame.
Here a comparison of the first and second airbourne frame:

Spoiler

Frame one

Frame two

 

[tauKhan]

You should have picked fox . Anyway, I found a magus post to confirm my theory.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

You should have picked fox .

Here you are *added last jumpsquat frame as comparison*
Looks pretty significant, this is probably also the reason why a few techniques involving ground->air transition became easier, as wavedashing, multishining etc.

Spoiler

 

[tauKhan]

No, the physics delay doesn't make any of those techs easier, (and they aren't easier). For example the airdodge momentum also applies frame later, so if you press it on the 2nd aerial frame, you'll be higher when the airdodge momentum happens.

Also I don't know exactly what the physics delay means and where it applies, but my theory is that the game always first computes your position, and only after that your speed, and that's why movement happens 1 frame late.

 

[Kuya the Red]

SH is BARELY longer. And a sour spot fair send opponents horizontally in Melee, too. The knockback formula in PM is a bit different, so yeah, they go further. But if you're a Marth main, spacing for tippers should be your thing. Besides, in PM, like every throw can potentially lead to a tipper dair if you catch them DIing wrong.

I think maybe you just need to acclimate to the PM environment with Marth. Pretty much everything still works, and then some.[/quote

SH is BARELY longer. And a sour spot fair send opponents horizontally in Melee, too. The knockback formula in PM is a bit different, so yeah, they go further. But if you're a Marth main, spacing for tippers should be your thing. Besides, in PM, like every throw can potentially lead to a tipper dair if you catch them DIing wrong.

I think maybe you just need to acclimate to the PM environment with Marth. Pretty much everything still works, and then some.

then it goes back to my previous poblem with marth: being his tippers having a much smaller hitbox than in melee. Its not too dificult to tipper with marth in PM, but it's definitely not a walk in the park compared to melee marth. If they just increased the tipper range on marth's sword just a bit, then we should see more marths in PM. and i mean all of marth's tippered moves.

Its like this: (the '>' represents the hitbox for tippers) <----- IMPORTANT INFO

PM Marth:
O===||=================>

Melee Marth:
O===||===============>>>

PM Roy:
O===||>>>>>>>>>>>>>=====


This is also the reason why i like to play as Roy from time to time. He ALWAYS tippers and His Sweet spotted Dair isnt even hard to do.

 

[Element of Smash]

I disagree with this...

But hey. Who am I?

 

[Master WGS]

I've mained Marth in Melee for 10 or so years. He feels different in PM. I don't know if floaty is what I'd say, but I don't think it's so much him as it's the game he's in. The physics are different. The engine is different. He looks different. His animations are probably different. It's probably a mix of all these things that do it.

Whether or not we're right, I just want to let you know that you're not the only one who feels this way. I avoid playing Marth in PM for this very reason.

 

[Kuya the Red]

well I'm just a fish

 

[Comet7]

if you are a marth main, you shouldn't be complaining about difficulty in acquiring tippers, since that's pretty much the first thing you should be able to do consistently.

 

[Kuya the Red]

if you are a marth main, you shouldn't be complaining about difficulty in acquiring tippers, since that's pretty much the first thing you should be able to do consistently.

Marth Main in melee, Melee more lenient with tippers. get it? also the properties of the fair are just different too. The tippered fair in PM bring them directly up, which is good, but the knockback increases far more than it does in melee meaning ken combos often wont work simply because when you tipper them, they are too high to jump and dair. If you wait for it instead then there isnt enough hitstun to dair them. If they are at high enough percent (160+) then tipper fair kills light to average weight.

 

[Element of Smash]

So basically this whole thread boils down to "I'm upset Ken Combos aren't as easy as everything else in this game".

Even though dair has like a dozen other setups, some of which are easier, some more reliable...some both.

 

[tauKhan]

@ Kuya the Red
Tipper hitboxes are the same as in melee. Also tipper fair is the same as in melee and sends opponent upwards too and that can prevent you from dairing.

What throws me off most about pm marth is probably the stupid brawl sound effects... in combination with brawl model they really do make marth feel different, although he isn't much different at all.

 

[Pure Royalty]

i didnt care about the ken combos. i didnt rely on them too much. i just think he moves slower in the air and i cant perform the tech skill i would do naturally in melee