Am I right to assume that...

[thehard]

Provided items in Smash Bros. had set and/or telegraphed spawn locations from 64-onward, we'd be playing competitively with them on?

 

[Zylach]

I doubt it. I don't think the main problem with items is the fact that they spawn randomly. One of the main problems with items is that they turn the game into a rush-to-the item game in order to win since items are so powerful. One of the first examples that comes to mind is the fan in melee and brawl which got opponents stuck in near-infinite slap combos. Basically, whomever gets that item first gets a ton of percentage off on their opponent which is not a test of a player's skill at all, just a test of how fast they can grab silly items.

Thinking about this especially in terms of sm4sh where items are massively ridiculous, OHKO powerhouses, the game becomes so random (which items will spawn when?) and reliant on items being OP rather than on player skill.

 

[thehard]

Wouldn't controlling item spawns become a skill in itself?

Also, what if something like an outline in the shape of the incoming item was shown as it blinked into existence, or played on a loop falling from the sky before it eventually became tangible?

What would you say if the items were balanced in a stricter manner? You already do make tradeoffs by picking some up, mind you, you can't grab with an item in hand and you can't use your own A attacks if you've picked up something like the Ray Gun.

Of course, with there being an in-game item switch, just like you have an in-game choice to switch from time to stock, I'd still think it was completely valid to play with no items in a theoretically "items-balanced-for-1v1-interactions" game (and at this point I'm way more fond of no items). But I'm interested in what you guys have to say.

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

Yeah, it's likely. Halo plays with items on in a sense. Map design would have been drastically different than what we're accostumed to since the balancing would have to take in to consideration item strength/spawn frequency.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

If items spawned in set locations in set intervals of time, cycling in a set order, I dont see why not. At the very least, we'd play with a limited itemset (which would probably be for the best)

I could see things like Bob-ombs being turned off since they KO at obscenely low percents. Motion Sensor Bombs would probably be contested heavily. Ore Club and Gust Bellows would probably be turned off. Franklin Badge would also be suspect. Evil Eye or whatever item it is that is stationary and shoots blasts in set intervals would definitely be on. Super Leaf would too. Starman would probably be off. Assist trophies and Pokeballs too.

This is an interesting topic to think about.

 

[Zylach]

I guess when I think about it from the perspective of something like Halo, it makes more sense. It would make for a different kind of competitive game which would be like an objective-focused fighting game which doesn't exist to the level an items-on smash meta would achieve. I'd be interested in seeing a food-on game at the very least to see if something as simplistic as that would be fun but also competitive (Something like that would remind me of ARAM's in LoL where health packs spawn in dedicated areas on set time tables). Team healers in doubles would be a lot of fun too (I've played stamina matches like this in casual settings). It wouldn't be accepted with the competitive community any time soon, I assure you, but I like the thought of it in that sense.

 

[thehard]

Yeah, even if competitive item play was "solved" through in-game measures, no one would want to make the switch this late. Except people who play ISP

 

[1FC0]

I would probably be fine with items like Banana's that are useful but not too good if you got a warning before spawning the item so that players know in advance where and when what item is going to spawn. I am not sure if I would enjoy it more than no items though, I would have to try it to know whether I would like it better or not.

 

[popsofctown]

If you consider how random melee items is 10 times more terrible than what you're suggesting and that random melee items still managed to stick around for a really long time in competitive play, then you realize your thesis is probably very correct.

 

[thehard]

I heard the original cause of banning items came from a Melee Ganondorf jabbing a Bob-omb that appeared in front of him.

 

[LancerStaff]

Well, in competitive KIU Items are pretty much a 50/50 thing. But then again, the weapons are more potent then the OHKO items, so it's probably not the best comparison.

 

[HeroMystic]

I heard the original cause of banning items came from a Melee Ganondorf jabbing a Bob-omb that appeared in front of him.

I actually believe it was an exploding capsule.

To note, there were side-tournaments in Brawl that did item tournaments. It was mostly out of the limelight and kept locally. That said, there is no way any rational TO would allow all items to on and would significantly limit the list. That would mean no bombs, not exploding items, no fans, no hammers, etc.

 

[HeavyMetalSonic]

It would probably be under heavily controller circumstances. Spawns would have to be consistent in placement and order(Which they sadly aren't, and can lead to some unfortunate situations), items would be limited (No Pokeballs, Bombs, Star, mushrooms etc). I don't know, like customs, it could be fun. But sadly it doesn't work the way competitive players would want it to. So I doubt it will happen.