Alternate Universe: Sakurai never existed. How would YOU make a Nintendo all-stars fighting game?

[PixelPasta]

Most of us love Sakurai and what he did for the Super Smash Brothers series. However, in this topic, we must forget that he ever created the games. Yes, this topic is about imagining if Sakurai never developed Super Smash Bros!
What would be different? How would another developer take on the game? And most importantly, what would you do, if put in charge of creating Super Smash Bros?

Picture this: It's the late 90s, and the Nintendo 64 is doing great. You, a developer at Nintendo, are approached by some of the higher-up Nintendo officials. They want you to create a cross-over Nintendo fighting game, featuring the most prominent characters of Nintendo's games, for the Nintendo 64!
So, its now up to you to create a roster for this upcoming game.
There are a couple easy-to-follow guidelines:
-The roster must be around the same size as the real Smash 64 (lets say 10-15 characters)
-It must use characters who existed at the time (basically, any Nintendo character created before 2000 is allowed)
And of course, you can create rosters for a Gamecube version, Wii version, and Wii U version, because remember: Melee, Brawl, and U/3DS also do not exist in this alternate world.

To make this really interesting, try to forget everything Sakurai did. Remember that in this alternate timeline, you don't have to do the same things Sakurai did. Ask yourself questions like: if Sakurai never added them, would I still consider including Jigglypuff? Ganondorf? Snake? Shiek?
Oh, and for the sake of this thread, let's pretend that the Kirby series still exists.

And feel free to talk about movesets, stages, items, anything else that you would change as well. Basically, just have fun hypothesizing. Get creative!


DISCLAIMER: This is in no way a criticism of Sakurai as a developer. I think he did a fine job. This is simply hypothetical.

 

[Ragna22]

I feel like Capcom would've made a Nintendo vs. Capcom fighting game pretty early if Sakurai wasn't around, though one thing you gotta consider is since Sakurai never existed neither does the Kirby series or the revival of Kid Icarus.

 

[Eight Melodies]

Honestly for Smash 64 the only thing I would have changed is replace Jigglypuff with some other Pokemon like Charizard maybe.

 

[PixelPasta]

one thing you gotta consider is since Sakurai never existed neither does the Kirby series or the revival of Kid Icarus.

That's true, I didn't think of that. Perhaps I should change it from him not existing to him simply not being the developer of Smash Bros, so Kirby can still be involved.

 

[D-idara]

MOAR CUTSCENES.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

This is gonna take a long time, all I can say right now is that Meowth would be in the 64 version.

 

[Ragna22]

I'd design Smash 64 the same way except I'd replace Jigglypuff with Clifairy to appeal to the Japanese market as well.

 

[ImaClubYou]

If I was Sakurai I would probably just add characters I cared about, lmao.

 

[mimgrim]

Roster;

Mario
Bowser
Yoshi
Kirby
Link
Pikachu
Charizard
Donkey Kong
Samus
Marth
Chrono
Rocket

Gameplay;

It would look similar to the likes of the more typical fighting game, but it would retain the freedom of movement from Smash. There would be 3 attack buttons, strong attacks, weak attacks, and special attacks with each having 4 attacks that can be done from them. There would also be a jump button, and while in the air you strong and weak attacks will change to be an aerial attacks. There will also be a block button and grab button. There will be no pre-defined combos. Instead every attack can be canceled into another attack, a jump, or a grab, basically combos are all on the player and their are no fancy movements to just do a single attack.

That's all I have currently. :L

 

[Halfhead]

I assume this is about the roster rather than gameplay. I'm not sure I could describe what I would do differently gameplay-wise.

My roster would be:

These characters are unloked from the begininng due to their relative popularity and importance.
Mario
Link
Samus
Donkey Kong
Marth
Pikachu/Red Team Thing
Kirby

These characters would be unlockable as they are important, but not exactly iconic:
Fox McCloud
Captain Falcon
Banjo-Kazooie
Ness
R.O.B.

This is put together with the mindset that it is 2000 and series like Star Fox and F-Zero are still pretty small while Earthbound and Banjo-Kazooie are both in their prime.

You'll also notice that I only included one representative per series. I'm not sure why, but it feels right.

 

[D-idara]

Roster;

Mario
Bowser
Yoshi
Kirby
Link
Pikachu
Charizard
Donkey Kong
Samus
Marth
Chrono
Rocket

Gameplay;

It would look similar to the likes of the more typical fighting game, but it would retain the freedom of movement from Smash. There would be 3 attack buttons, strong attacks, weak attacks, and special attacks with each having 4 attacks that can be done from them. There would also be a jump button, and while in the air you strong and weak attacks will change to be an aerial attacks. There will also be a block button and grab button. There will be no pre-defined combos. Instead every attack can be canceled into another attack, a jump, or a grab, basically combos are all on the player and their are no fancy movements to just do a single attack.

That's all I have currently. :L

Ew...I think Pokken Fighters will be plenty of traditional fighting game style from Nintendo.

 

[evildevil97]

No Sakurai means no Kirby.

 

[AEMehr]

I would have made a game called "Dragon King".

It's a new ip so I dunno what to expect the consumers to think. If it does well maybe I'll ask to add Mario or something in the next game on the Dolphin??

 

[liets]

well first things first, i would add marina- the chick in my sig. that game was my childhood.
ness might have made it. i wasn't exactly around back then so i'm not sure of his popularity back then
same goes for captain falcon, though if he were brought up to me i would stop all to develop him
team swaps would likely have been hats, such as headband, top hat, fez, etc.
the fighting style probably wouldn't have been very similar to the smash we love . . . (turn based RPG, anyone?)
aaand i think that's about it

 

[allison]

I most likely would have ended up with a similar roster but with gameplay reminiscent of normal fighting games like Street Fighter. Most people seem to take it for granted that they'd come up with Dragon King gameplay for whatever reason

 

[mimgrim]

Most people seem to take it for granted that they'd come up with Dragon King gameplay for whatever reason

^This.

I came up with my stuff as if there were no Super Smash Bros already. Meaning I probably wouldn't have come up with that kind of a style and would have looked like a more traditional fighting game. I do however believe that I would still give it freedom of movement like Smash has and still keep it simple.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

I probably would've kept the roster the same minus Jiggs for Charizard, then probably add Mewtwo, Bowser, and Pit

 

[Pacack]

Obviously the gameplay would be the same and whatnot. I'm using fighting game archetypes to describe characters, so you may need to look them up.

64 Roster (With 10 characters, but more focus on balance.):

Mario: Balanced with close range focus.
Bowser: Heavyweight Powerhouse
Donkey Kong: Heavyweight Semi-Grappler
Link: Balanced with long range focus/Rounder
Samus: Heavy-Midweight Sniper
Marth: Light-Midweight Rushdown (just like Melee)
Kirby: Light Aerial fighter (Would be more like our Jigglypuff than our Kirby)
Pikachu: Light-Midweight Mix-up character. (Like Falco in Melee)
Mewtwo: Heavy-Midweight Poker
Banjo and Kazooie: Midweight Dual Character if technology is up to it.

Melee Roster (19 characters):

64 Roster +
Luigi: More aerial-based semiclone of Mario.
Peach: Midweight Mix-up character (like in Melee, but heavier and somewhat less powerful.)
Toad: Lightweight Grappler
Diddy Kong: Lightweight Trap Layer (Just like in Brawl)
Yoshi: Light-Midweight Semi-Grappler
Ganon: Heavyweight Turtle
King Dedede: Heavyweight Grappler
Meowth: Lightweight Rushdown Character
Pit: Light-Midweight Rounder with strong aerials and good projectiles.

Brawl Roster (29 Characters):

Melee Roster +
Wario: Heavy-Midweight Dominating Character
King K. Rool: Heavyweight Trapper with Semi-Grappling Properties.
Zelda: Light-Midweight Powerful Sniper (with Powerup attributes, maybe?)
Ridley: Heavyweight Aerial Fighter
Meta Knight: Nerfed version of Brawl Meta Knight
Lucario: Something like his Project M incarnation.
Olimar: Ammo Grappler (Or whatever he is in Brawl)
Takamaru: Midweight Sniper with Poker attributes.
R.O.B.: Heavyweight Trap Layer (Would use his top and stack up blocks to mess with the stage.)
Sonic: His Project M incarnation is perfect.

SSB4 Roster (40 Characters):

Brawl Roster +
Rosalina: Same as her current incarnation.
Bowser Jr.: Bowser Semiclone. Midweight Powerhouse.
Ganondorf: Transformation of Ganon, Heavy-Midweight Zoner
Impa: Midweight Poker (Basically our modern Sheik)
Charizard: Heavyweight Aerial Based Semi-Grappler
Little Mac: Same as his current incarnation.
Mii: Customizable balanced character. Would have a default moveset.
Sukapon: Light-Midweight Turtle
Daitoryo: Midweight Power-up Character (The more combos you do, the more powerful you get. Power-ups would be lost each stock.)
Mega Man: Same as his current incarnation.
Pac-man: Lightweight Dominating Character

While there are less characters overall, I have cut down on clones and semi-clones to the point that we have only two semiclones on the roster (which, incidentally, are both from the Mario series, which is the most represented character-wise). I also focus on completing old series over adding new ones. I think most people would be very happy with the rosters overall.

 

[Ragna22]

It tells me something that many would want to replace Jigglypuff.

 

[Pacack]

It tells me something that many would want to replace Jigglypuff.

I like Jigglypuff fine, but she wasn't as deserving as Meowth or Mewtwo even at her peak.

 

[PixelPasta]

I'm glad to see so many interesting rosters!

I figured I might as well post what I had in mind:

Okay, so here we have the Nintendo 64 iteration of the game. It features some of the most prominent Nintendo icons of the time: Mario, Link, Pikachu, Donkey Kong, Samus Aran, Kirby, Marth, Yoshi, Fox McCloud, and Pit. Captain Falcon and Ness are your standard unlockable characters, while Bowser, Ganon and Mewtwo are all unlocked by battling them as a boss in some sort of single-player mode.

Next, we have the GameCube iteration of the game. This one adds other famous characters such as Luigi, Princess Peach, Diddy Kong, Princess Zelda, Charizard, King Dedede, and Tom Nook from Animal Crossing to the fray. Unlockables include Andy from Advance Wars, Ray from Custom Robo, Ridley, Wolf O'Donnel, and even the legendary Sonic the Hedgehog joins as a third-party fighter!

Now, that is the Wii version of this series. This iteration includes Toad, King K. Rool, Wario, Captain Olimar from Pikmin, and Isaac from Goldensun. Unlockable fighters include Impa, Lucario, Meta Knight, Anna, Porky Minch, customizable Miis, and even Mega Man, the second third-party addition!

In this alternate timeline, the Wii U version would currently be in development, much like it is now. Tingle, Palutena, Little Mac, and Shulk would all be new additions, along with unlockable characters such as Rosalina, Zoroark, Saki Amamiya from Sin & Punishment, Starfy from The Legendary Starfy, Chibi Robo from Chibi-Robo, and even the Black Mage from Final Fantasy.

With all of these additions and no cuts, the final roster of fifty fighters would be...

So clearly I differ from Sakurai in many ways:
-I think Toad should be prioritized over Rosalina
-I think Ganon is more worthy than Ganondorf
-I think Impa is more worthy than Shiek
-I think Jigglypuff never deserved a spot
-I think an Animal Crossing character should have been added earlier, and that it should have been Tom Nook
-I think Star Fox only deserves two reps, and that Wolf should come first
-I think that Porky should be prioritized over Lucas
-I think Anna is more important than Ike or Roy.
-I do not feel as if Solid Snake is a worthy third-party.
-I think a greater variety of franchises should be represented
-I do not think any cuts should be made.

 

[Tackman91]

I would have tried to have a cohesive world and story, and I would fail miserably. People will see the game as a mockery of Nintendo's franchises, which will cause the company to lose respect and eventually go bankrupt.

Best-case scenario right there!

 

[Makaronileo]

 

[KatKit]

I would feel like something is missing in the world. Then I would have a baby and name him Sakurai.

Yes, in an alternate universe, I am his mother. And Smash stays the same except I convince my son to put an additional Zelda, DK, F-Zero, and Metroid rep in the game, as well as Takamaru. Now make mama proud, Sakurai!

 

[YoshiandToad]

This seems a fun idea. I'll throw my hat into the ring.

Okay, so I based mine on what I knew of Nintendo at the time of each game's release:

SMASH 64

• Mario series is a little overrepped here with Mario, Luigi and Wario; but Mario series was what I knew most of at the time.
• Donkey Kong gets two characters due to me having fond childhood memories of Diddy
• I'm old enough to have played Kid Icarus and remembered it prior to Smash reviving it
• Weirdly at the time I was totally oblivious to Metroid
• Meowth would of always have been my pick for a second Pokemon character
• UK didn't have Ness at the time, so I'd never heard of him.

MELEE

• By this point I was heavily into Mario, and thus the series would of gotten 3 more reps. I always saw Toad as more of a fighter than Peach.
• Gen 2 wouldn't have Pichu to rep it, instead we'd of gotten more Gen 1 love with the two most popular Pokemon ever; Charizard and Mewtwo.
• Kirby would of gotten Dedede as I just began to learn of it.
• No Fire Emblem as Smash is what introduced me to it. Ergo I wouldn't of known to add it.
• At this point the UK still didn't have Ness, so he's excluded and I had yet to play F-Zero.
• Balloon Fighter would of been my second(after Pit) retro of choice.
• Wolf>Falco
• Had learnt of Metroid by this point, played Animal Crossing and had seen previews of Pikmin

BRAWL

• No new Mario newcomer, but DK gets Dixie Kong!
• Legend of Zelda gets two members of the Toon family(Wind Waker and Four Swords I was heavily into)
• Metroid gets it's second rep and it's not Samus without her armour.
• Kirby gains MK, Pokemon gets a Gen 3 rep in Blaziken
• Played F-Zero GX. LOVED it. That'd get two reps for sure.
• Duck Hunt Dog becomes the third retro character
• Start to add more niche title characters such as Doshin, Andy, Isaac and I guess Ike would count had the real Melee not counted.
• Ness STILL hasn't made his UK debut, and Lucas never will so Mother misses out again.
• Animal Crossing gets a bizarre second rep.

SMASH FOR (3DS and Wii U)

• Bowser Jr. gets added to expand an already overbloated Mario section. But **** it, it's Mario. He can have however many he wants.
• K. Rool is added due to popularity from the cartoon. Hell, if Meowth gets in for that, K. Rool does too.
  
• Zelda gets to keep up somewhat with a third Toon character in Tingle. Get over it America, ya sissies.
• Bandana Waddle Dee gets added as a fourth Kirby...I loved that game.
• Pokemon roster goes nuts; Blaziken is switched out for being too similar to Falcon, and replaced with Sceptile. Feraligatr appears as a heavyweight to reference Gen 2, Lucario(now with additional importance as the first canon Mega) references Gen 4, and Zard, Mewtwo and Lucario between them represent Gen 6. Would of added a Gen 5 Pokemon, but didn't want to cut any of the Gen 1s for it.
• NESS FINALLY ****ING APPEARS IN THE UK ON THE VC! MOTHER FANS AROUND THE WORLD CHEER WITH JOY.
• F-Zero gets Black Shadow added due to anime popularity. Attempt to encourage a new F-Zero to exist.
• Chibi-Robo and Dillon are added to rep new franchises
  
• Captain Rainbow is added to include a dozen retros in one character.
• Palutena is added due to Sakurai presumingly been working on that instead of Smash, and the series takes off.
• Fire Emblem is expanded due to the amount of games that come out. Marth and Anna are added due to overall importance/reoccurance and Robin is thrown in for something new and exciting.

You can chuck some of those Pokemon and FE characters as DLC if you're thinking the "For" roster is looking a little bloated. Maybe Tingle and Jr. can be DLC too.

 

[liets]

I'm glad to see so many interesting rosters!

I figured I might as well post what I had in mind:

Tom Nook didn't EXIST when ssb64 came out

 

[Tornado_Man]

Anything huh...

Honestly?

Spoiler

INB4FLAMING

 

[PixelPasta]

Tom Nook didn't EXIST when ssb64 came out

You're absolutely right, I only just realized that after posting everything. I'm currently fixing it up

 

[Morbi]

The roster is almost immaculate; there are just a few changes that are necessary (just in general).
1. Replace Sheik with Impa.
2. Solo-Charizard from the beginning.
3. Ganondorf wouldn't be a clone; in fact, I would have probably added Ganon instead.
4. Remove Adult Link (as Toon Link is the most prominent variant of Link).
5. Add Meowth in Smash 64.
6. Falco would not have been added over Wolf.
7. I probably would have added Krystal in Brawl.
8. I would not have added R.O.B or Game and Watch (instead Dedede would have been added in Melee and Mewtwo in Brawl).

If it was only Smash 64, I would have just added Meowth instead of Jigglypuff. Easy.

 

[Pacack]

4. Remove Adult Link (as Toon Link is the most prominent variant of Link).

When SSB64's roster was decided, the most prominent incarnation of Link is none other than:

This design. He's a teen, so he actually represents both adult and child Link fairly well.

 

[Morbi]

When SSB64's roster was decided, the most prominent incarnation of Link is none other than:

This design. He's a teen, so he actually represents both adult and child Link fairly well.

Yeah, I just read the thread title and got all excited because it is a fun topic. Then I read the OP; so I wouldn't really change anything other than Meowth > Jigglypuff.

But it would be interesting to see that Link instead. I wonder what influence that would have on subsequent games.

 

[evildevil97]

I still find it hard to take "Sakurai didn't exist" rosters seriously when they include Kirby.

 

[Morbi]

To be fair, after some more thought, I don't believe that I would have added Ness or Captain Falcon as I didn't know who they were prior to playing Smash 64. So I would probably exchange those for Diddy Kong and Ganon as Ganon is probably the most prominent Nintendo villain after Bowser.

 

[PixelPasta]

I still find it hard to take "Sakurai didn't exist" rosters seriously when they include Kirby.

Oh, and for the sake of this thread, let's pretend that the Kirby series still exists.

I probably should have worded the title to something more like "Alternate Universe: Sakurai was never in charge of Super Smash Bros."

 

[Riposte__]

My version would be a 8-way walk fighting game like Soul Caliber, but would still functionally be like smash 64 where combos where about air juggling, and while you could win in the normal way of taking your enemy to 0 health, ring outs would be the norm and would be divorced of health and rather the knock back will be greater and greater the longer you can keep the combo going. It would also be different from SB/SC where it would also keep you in the action where there wouldn't be round resets like in SB/SC but rather the player spawns right back in.

 

[Pazzo.]

EDIT: For everyone who can't see that I'm making an opinion, this is just one of those things, based on if Sakurai hadn't been director of SSB.

If Sakurai didn't work on SSB, I doubt it would be an All-Star game. We'd probably have Smash Bros. metagame with original characters like in Street Fighter.

 

[Riposte__]

If Sakurai didn't work on SSB, I doubt it would be an All-Star game. We'd probably have Smash Bros. metagame with original characters like in Street Fighter.

You COMPLETELY missed the point of the topic. Gratz.

 

[Canuckduck]

If Sakurai never existed, that would also mean that Kirby also wouldn't exist.

I'd make it so that there is only 1 character per franchise.


Here is my supposed roster for Super Smash Bros. 64 (if Kirby never existed, and there can only be one character per franchise).

Mario - Mario

Donkey Kong - DK

Yoshi - Yoshi

Zelda - Link

Pokemon - Pikachu

EarthBound - Ness

F-Zero - Captain Falcon

Metroid - Samus

Star Fox - Fox McCloud

Fire Emblem - Marth

CastleVania - Simon Belmont

Ice Climber - Popo (yes, just Popo)

 

[Pazzo.]

You COMPLETELY missed the point of the topic. Gratz.

No, I didn't. I'm not blind, you know, I could clearly see the purpose was to have a fun game where a fan plays the role of the director. But, for the leisure of people who have no skills of deduction, and my lacking in explanation, I'll edit my post.

 

[KatKit]

I just have a question for everyone in this thread: Would you have added WFT?

Thought so. That is why Sakurai is the hero Smash deserves... but not the one it needs right now.