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alternate stopping fox/falcos upB recovery?

jamijami

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
9
Location
Brighton
i was just messing around today, and noticed that using a dair into foxes/falcos upB recovery stalls it, whilst also sending the down a little bit, making it easy to combo into like using a bair into a stage spike maybe?
it looks really cool, and isnt too difficult to pull of, could work on other characters too, but i havent tried it yet.
 

j3ly

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 19, 2009
Messages
2,001
Location
London
its because as you hit the ground with dair, 2 small hitboxes appear either side of him. these hitboxes are why you see dair failing to be l-cancelled on many mario vids. you need to hit l a fair amount later.

i just realised we are on different pages - you are talking about jumping out with a dair while their upB is charging yeah? that is very effective against falco. the limitation is that most of the time a spacie will be able to sideB onto the edge/ledge before we have a chance to get over there.

its difficult to setup - CPU's make it really easy but it can be difficult to get an opponent skilled in recovery into the right position. one way is to jab/Dtilt (down angled) them out of their recovery. the jab and the dtilt are pretty much exactly the same apart from damage i believe. no stun, just a little knock (dtilt ***** ganon/falcon comming from below)

when it comes to fox and falco

if they like to sideB onto/above stage, jab/dtilt
if they like to try and sweetspot with sideB, dilt

if they are above and away from the stage and are going to try and sweetspot upB (they do all the time) dtilt will 100% be in the way, because they are comming down, and the dtilt covers all angles apart from sweetspot sideB.

if they are directly infront of the edge, and are looking to travel in a straight line onto the ledge, you could dtilt. but seeing as they cant sweetspot from this angle (from my xp?), miles better off with a charged dsmash.

if they are below, cape. But if they are smart they will take advantage of the fact that travelling directly up turns them around, so you actually cape them into a stage grabbing position - time the cape late, then dsmash. You could also jab them out of it, or not do anything, and hope they didn't leave enough room to land on the stage after turning around.

these moves would setup an off-stage dair every time unless they tech, that position, them being directly below the ledge. i like doing this very much - seeing as they are charging upB under the ledge, it is a simple matter to walk off the edge, start a dair asap, then after that hits them, do a rising bair/uair. if they dont tech the stage, they are dead. you could also cape... but caping a top fox/falco hardly ever seems to work unless you go offstage and cape right infront of them (guarenteed kill)

i believe this is the setup you are talking about to dair someone offstage - below and away from the ledge. almost 100% of the time your best option is to get inbetween them and the ledge and cape.

the limitations... once they are charging an upB below the stage, it pretty much over. the reason that its better to dair instead of just falling off and bairing is cos dair makes it harder to tech, and the bair needs to be timed pretty well.

also dtilt (down angled throughout this post) has no stun - remeber this.

the first paragraph of this post, that effect makes falcon recovering from below an impossibility - it covers the angle of his crappy sweetspot. SH FF an offstage dair -> rising bair/uair (SH FF so you dont get hit by his upB). beautiful :)
 

n0ne

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
509
Location
Toronto, Ontario
jamijam is right about dairing of the stage... but i think its best donde DROPZONING. its faster and u still have ur jump left and cape-height gain. after dair u can bair for the gimp or get back to the ledge and bair there.

i also seldom use ledgedrop to fireball.... pretty quick timing.... what happens is the fireball bounces off the stage wall and pretty much ****s up ANY recovery. to get back to the ledge u have to walljump back tho.
 

j3ly

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 19, 2009
Messages
2,001
Location
London
how do we dropzone as mario? fthrow -> jump out nd dair?

or do you mean walking off the edge and starting a dair? cos they need to be below the stage for that, which is hard to setup.

fireball from ledge, SEXY i dont think ive ever done that even as a mistake. must try this next time im at a cube
 

jamijami

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
9
Location
Brighton
i see what you mean, but i meant just about if the fox/falco is coming from under the stage (which can happen alot) then a nice dair can stop them in their tracks, and allow for another move to be put in, creating some pretty nice combos, or even a stage spike.
you dont really need to leave the stage, just a short hop, then a dair on the ledge.
 

j3ly

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 19, 2009
Messages
2,001
Location
London
ohhhh i see now. man thats really clever, like falcos do just without the spike run off then jump back on with a move. i cant believe i never thought of this.

see if its effective to do with his other attacks? then write about that shiz here

is stef getting better too
 

jamijami

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
9
Location
Brighton
ha yeh i just found it messing around, works well good on spacies, but managed to pull it off on stefs jiggs/roy a couple of times.
yeh he is getting better, using ness a lil bit too now aswell.
it's all about mario though!
 

a rookie

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
613
Location
Long Beach, Ca
Yeah, I figured this out just never posted it cuz I was gonna post a video instead. Down-air ---> Down Smash or Grab, you decide! But this is not just for spacies, do it against characters trying to sweet spot, it's affective (:
 
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